Why DON'T you pirate?

[DracoSuave]

Paying for your books is a very simple proposition.

Any world where someone can feed himself and lead a good life doing something he loves is a good world.

There are three types of pirates:

1) Those who will pay for it anyways.
2) Those that would have paid for it, but won't pay for it because now they have a copy, so why bother?
3) Those that would never pay.

The first group helps this artist eat. The second group -might- help this artist eat, but the third group makes it so the second group doesn't 'have to.' So the third group is a bunch of douchebags that are taking a work that people like, and harming the person, actively hindering him from making more.

The misconception is that anti-piracy measures are meant to catch all pirates; this is not true nor realistic. The first type of pirate doesn't create damages to the company, so there's no gain there. The third type doesn't create revenue for the company in a piracy-free situation, so there's no gain there, however, because they fuel the second group, they are actively creating a loss for the company.

However, the second group, when piracy is made harder, will create revenue for the company and therefore there might be worth in curtailing piracy (which generates sales from this group.)


I like artists making stuff I like. Bottom line: Unless the artist says otherwise, piracy makes it harder for him to make stuff I like, and I don't desire to contribute to the further suckening of this world.

 

[Jack99]

I do not pirate WotC's material (or D&D stuff in general) because I love D&D and want those that make my hobby to do well. At least well enough to keep going.

 

[pawsplay]

I always find those kinds of arguments fascinating because no matter how many terrible things the doer does, as long as they achieve some greater good in the end, its somehow okay. By this logic, it would not only be okay for Red Lobster to steal 15 dollars from sony. It would be okay for Red Lobster to drug your order, wait for you to pass out and remove your kidney in order to supply it to a person in need. Or for sony to kidnap you, get your family to pay a hefty ransom, then invest that money in a charity album for leprosy.

By SOME logic, not by THIS logic. Mill used exactly the argument of consequentialism to argue for individual rights, not against them.

 

[pawsplay]

Bully for you.

If you honestly believe that creative works are simply 'information'. . . well, apart from that being essentially 'retro future' cutesy doublespeak that might still have clung to a shred of cool in the 80s, or - more often - laughable 'justification' in action. . .

No, never mind. I've been round that roundabout before. I know how it goes. So. . . I'll just bow out again.

I'm kind of disappointed you decided to bow out. I'd really like to know, what do you think an artistic creation is, other than information? Writing a book does not create matter, and physical transforming paper and ink into a book is trivial in consideration of a book as a book. PDFs are nothing but electrons. But they are organized electrons.

Information is not a pejorative word. It means a meaningful organization of data.

 

[Prism]

As someone who sometimes does and sometimes does not pirate, I'll tell you why/when I don't

2. Quality.

This certainly has bearing on the matter. In many cases the quality of a pirated film is of poor quality - it always surprises me how few people care and will happily watch some dodgy copy of the lastest film. For D&D books and generally written text this is less of a problem. If I want a perfect copy of a film I really like I'll buy the bluray. However, I do make a copy of it to my media PC. This is illegal and therefore I am a pirate I guess

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4. Availability.

If a D&D book is available to be bought rather than pirated I will generally buy it. However I currently have a rogue copy of the now infamous PHB2 PDF. I pre-ordered my paper copy from amazon two months ago and still waiting. Yes I know I am not entitled to the pdf legally simply because I can't get my real copy yet. That doesn't bother me.

5. Goodwill.

This. I like to pay people for products and services that I want. I happily pay musicians for tracks I could otherwise get for free - particularily those who allow you to choose your own price. I like supporting my hobby too and paying for D&D books. I don't have a problem with those who don't however - and I know quite a few

6. It is illegal.

Certainly not this however. In my experience most people couldn't care less about whether something is or is not illegal. When asked they may say they do but I don't think I know anybody that hasn't or doesn't do at least one of - drink under age, break the speed limit, take drugs, rip a music CD to mp3, report every penny they earn to the taxman etc. People do things based on their moral grounding far more than worrying about actual laws.

My 5 year old daughter came home from school telling me they had watched a film as it was a rainy day but it was really bad quality. One of the other kids had brought it in and the teacher had happily put it on. Watching pirated films seems to be so 'normal' even at that age - well...at that school at least

9. Pennies to the Dollar.

A lot of my decisions are helped by this though. If I want a film, book or music I'll usually simply buy it. The price is pretty insignificant (however I do enjoy a good deal still). However I'm not convinced that in general having a certain amount of money means people are less willing to pirate

 

[ShadowDenizen]

For me its Ethics and Fear.

That's part of it for me, as well.

Let me preface this by saying that I prefer print editions whenever possible, especially for newer items.

But there were a few items from earlier editions of D+D that I missed out on when they were in print (a few of the PLanescape, Ravenloft, and Dark Sun stuff, along with some 1E modules). Sure, I could do a search and find them for free, but for the small price vendors are asking (in the range of $5 each or so, typically), it keeps my consience clear, so it's worth the price to me. (The fact that it helps the publisher and the distributor financially is a bonus, too.)

 

[haakon1]

I'm lawful good/lawful neutral. So, ethics.

 

[Bodhiwolff]

I love the people who somehow try to justify their piracy by claiming that everything works out in the big picture. If I pirate and don't spend 15 dollars on a game book, I can spend 15 dollars on a shrimp dinner, thereby supporting the companies I like.

What this fails to take into consideration is that the individual doing this gets BOTH the game book and the shrimp dinner, without the economy as a whole being compensated for both products. The individual gets to have their cake and eat it too, while at least one of those products is devalued, and somebody, somewhere, loses out. Companies start to lose revenue. Which hurts me, in the long run.

You can't get Two-for-One and not have somebody, somewhere, lose out. (Let alone the fact that the individual doesn't *deserve* both products for one price.)

If I pirate books, or music, or movies, I make it that much more difficult for the books and music that I like to get made. I make it difficult for those things that I like and appreciate to get through the amazingly difficult process of going from concept to completion, because the companies that fund these projects don't have as much money to throw at projects.

Ultimately, if I pirate these sorts of products, I'm adding to the problem in the system, and I'm hurting the industries that provide these products. It isn't enough that I, personally, pay for the products I like and only pirate the "so-so" products (so-so in my opinion, mind you!). Because if everybody does that, then only the absolutely-freaking-fantastic products from the general public's tastes make enough money to keep going. Only the blockbusters for the general public survive (and even those have diminished revenue).

And my tastes don't run to the median.

If I pirate, I add to the problem which is starving out my favourite artists, movie-makers, and writers. I add to the problems in their industries which are forcing companies to green-light fewer and fewer projects.

So piracy kills *my* chances of cool new products. I'm selfish. I want cool new products.

It is in my own best interest not to pirate. It is in my own best interest to convince friends not to pirate.

Stopping .pdf publication, because .pdfs are being pirated like crazy, is a minor inconvenience to me. But it is a major chance at diminishing the frequency of piracy, which is a major boon to my hobby, and therefore is a major boon to me.

In other words, stopping .pdf publication is good for me, even if I am minorly inconvenienced.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Man, people keep talking about how pirates have to "justify" what they do.

I've pirated. I will probably pirate in the future. I don't have to justify it ;p. I gave you the reasons I've done so and will do so in a previous post of mine. You can accept them or not, that's your call man. I'd only be justifying it if I thought there was something inherently wrong with what I was doing. Which I don't

 

[Hjorimir]

An interesting philosophical perspective one of my friends uses to justify his piracy is this:

Consider the economy as a whole. Say that there are good and bad parts of the economy. Good parts are things that help society -- creating infrastructure, feeding, clothing, and making people happy. Bad parts are things that harm society -- drugs that lead to addiction, violence that hurts people, theft that takes things away from people so they can no longer use them.

Spending money on bad things creates profits for the bad part of the economy, and we don't want that. Spending money on good things creates profits for the good part of the economy, and we do want that.

In this philosophical model, it doesn't matter where you spend your money, as long as it is part of the good part of the economy. You have and you can spend them however you want, as long as you don't give them to the bad part of the economy. Buying drugs or stolen goods encourages more drug use and more theft of people's possessions. However (again, in the perspective of this model), downloading pirated movies, games, or music for free does not give any money to bad people, and ultimately you'll still spend the same amount of money somewhere in the good part of the economy.

Sure, you're harming the company that is creating these products, but that is balanced out in that you are helping other companies instead. You pirate a new CD, and use the money that could have paid for the CD to instead pay for a shrimp dinner. Sony loses $15, and Red Lobster gets it instead.

Ultimately, in this philosophy, you're smart to spend money on things you like instead of getting them for free (because without funding, they'll stop making those nice things), but as long as you're not giving money to people who hurt others, you're not doing anything wrong.

That there is some very fine sophistry.