D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[prosfilaes]

1. You claim that it takes movies, but then state that it came about with Sherlock Holmes ... which wasn't a movie.

Actually, it has been many movies, and the first ones before Doyle was finished writing. But the first canon in this sense was Holmes, even if the concept was stronger and more broadly influential with shared universes over multiple mediums.

2. Many people attribute the first use of "fan canon" to a parody essay written by someone mocking ... Biblical canon studies.

And the name "the Big Bang" was to make fun of the idea. It doesn't change how serious the idea is.

So, yeah, a very new idea when it comes to artistic creation.

It's much older than RPGs, quite a bit older than video games, about as old as movies, and only slightly younger than comic strips. True, like opera and the novel, it's a newcomer compared to poetry and painting.

As for why it matters? Because the idea of "canon" and a "shared universe" that isn't simply the whim of a single artist (pace Tolkein) but is, rather, a corporate commodity (IP) that allows for many creators and is "policed" by fans is a very recent concept.

But why does it matter? As you say, it goes hand in hand with the recent concept of a "shared universe". It's not a problem if a concept is a new one to explain a new phenomenon.

It's kind of strage that, inter alia, decision made by a random person on the set of Star Trek in the 1960s to save money is elevated by fans into canon, and then forced back by those fans onto the owner of the property.

Fans can't force anything; they can just choose not to spend money on something they don't like. It seems weird to blame the people who support you for wanting something; I seriously doubt any property not as well loved as Star Trek could have survived such mistakes as the first movie.

Does it make you unhappy that a movie called Macbeth, based off the work of Shakespeare, had better hew closely to the play of Shakespeare's, even though the one extant copy is questionably accurate to Shakespeare's original? If you're selling your product based on a name, you've got to live up to the expectations of that name.

The same things that people enjoy about canon are also the same things that cause the things they don't like (retcons, reboots, and so on).

Those are about continuity.

 

[Aaron L]

Everyone seems to blame the mayo. Truth is, it's more likely the meat or other proteins you're eating with the mayo that are harboring the bacteria. Poor mayonnaise-always so misunderstood.

Well whatever it was, my brain associated the yucky sick feeling and vomiting with the mayo, fairly or not. Not a fun time, and I still can't touch the stuff, as much as I'd love to.

Sent from my VS880PP using EN World mobile app

 

[Hussar]

Took a bit of time to step back and cogitate. Something that I do realize, and this is purely a personal preference, and is certainly not limited to Forgotten Realms, is that I really don't like big settings. And FR is BIG. Bloody ginormously big. I don't just mean the material associated with FR, but, simply geography. The setting is freaking huge.

Now, my group doesn't tend to reuse settings very often. In the past ten years of gaming, I've never played in the same setting twice. Heck, I'd have to go back to almost 2e before I played multiple campaigns in the same setting. So, for me, a setting with that much geography doesn't really offer anything. I'm never going to use it, even if I wanted to.

And, more specifically to FR, a lot of the setting guides are pretty high altitude. They detail out the country in question, maybe talk about its history and some of the big movers and shakers, but, at least from the supplements I've seen, there's very little at "street level" in the supplements. So, it really doesn't appeal to me that FR gives me dozens of different countries. I prefer setting guides that are far more local. Things like Ptolus, or Freeport, or even modules like the old Isle of Dread or, heck, going all the way back to Keep on the Borderlands is all the geography I really need to run my campaigns.

This is why I adored the Curse of Strahd module. The entire campaign takes place in an area, what, 100 miles across? Is it even that big? My current campaign that I'm running is in Primeval Thule. The entire setting is only about 1000 miles across and a good chunk of that is water. And, really, the campaign will likely hit 10th level in an area maybe 300x300 miles. And that's stretching things. Dragonlance, if you only deal with Ansalon, is only 1200 miles across. It's TINY compared to even the Sword Coast.

Again, I'll just repeat myself here, this isn't specific to FR. There's a reason I haven't really used Greyhawk in a very long time. Sure, I ran the Savage Tide AP, which is set in Greyhawk, but, I only ran the first five or six modules (until the end of their time on The Isle of Dread) and three of the modules are set on the Isle of Dread. Outside of Sasserine, and the trip to the island, the PC's never saw more than a tiny sliver of the setting.

 

[Zardnaar]

Tyr region in Darksun is about the size of colorado

 

[Mirtek]

As I understand it, Elminster is responsible for topping them up again after they have been looted ready for the next group.

He even admits that in one novel

 

[Hussar]

Tyr region in Darksun is about the size of colorado

I was wondering that. I know when we played a 4e Darksun campaign, I noticed pretty quickly that nothing was all that terribly far away. I can see why the setting guide limits transportation magic.

Thing is, I don't really want anything bigger. To put it in perspective, Japan, from Kyushu (not counting Okinawa) to Hokkaido is about 1000 miles. Ansalon, Tyr, Primeval Thule, all are not a heck of a lot bigger than Japan. And Japan's got a pretty decent amount of myth and history. I don't need anything bigger.

 

[Lanefan]

As almost an aside to this discussion, how are there tombs left to loot in the Forgotten Realms?

I'd say it's the cycle of life, but in this case it's the cycle of death.

Someone rich dies and is buried with lots of wealth in a tomb. Murderhobo looters Brave adventurers come along and loot said tomb. Eventually said brave adventurers die and are buried with lots of wealth in tombs. Lather, rinse, repeat...

Lan-"who says recycling is a modern invention"-efan

 

[Zardnaar]

I was wondering that. I know when we played a 4e Darksun campaign, I noticed pretty quickly that nothing was all that terribly far away. I can see why the setting guide limits transportation magic.

Thing is, I don't really want anything bigger. To put it in perspective, Japan, from Kyushu (not counting Okinawa) to Hokkaido is about 1000 miles. Ansalon, Tyr, Primeval Thule, all are not a heck of a lot bigger than Japan. And Japan's got a pretty decent amount of myth and history. I don't need anything bigger.

You're talking to someone who ean a game from the same village the PCs started in.

Level 1 they rescued a sheep.

 

[KahlessNestor]

As I understand it, Elminster is responsible for topping them up again after they have been looted ready for the next group.

He spends part of The Temptation of Elminster doing that, yes. And he wasn't the only one. Mystra has her Chosen do that frequently to keep magic from becoming monopolized by the powerful and selfish, to spread it more widely.

 

[KahlessNestor]

There are tons of lost civilizations and the world is very large. That and new powerful people are buried every day!

That might explain why there are almost no high level paladins in the FR. As for clerics, they aren't any more likely than wizards to sacrifice themselves as heroes. When you get down to it, even the good clerics serve their god and his tenets. You might see a cleric of Lathander try to stop an undead horde, but he's not going to bother with a wizard attack. The cleric of Chauntea over there might try to stop a crop blight, but he's not going to both with the pirates invading the city.

Up until their safety is on the line, then they find other things to do and feel bad about it later. Sure, more people will opt not to steal 5 dollars that is sitting on a table all alone, than those who will steal it, but very few will go into a burning car to save someone. It drops even more dramatically when someone is actively armed and trying to harm/kill people.

Yes, and most clerics aren't adventurers. They serve in temples and such.

And yeah, it's called the bystander effect.