D&D 4E Why has 4E become the D&D zeitgeist?
Vigilance
Explorer
There was definitely speculation in the old days.
Heck, my friends and I had spirited discussions about the upcoming 2nd edition that EGG was working on, after he had mentioned it a few times in Dragon. Unearthed Arcana was more or less officially acknowledged as a 2nd edition preview/early look.
From what EGG was saying, 2nd edition was just going to have more classes and such, including the ones that made their way into Unearthed Arcana, as well as others we never saw, such as the Mountebank Gary mentioned a time or two.
So there was definitely speculation about new editions back in the day.
Heck, my friends and I had spirited discussions about the upcoming 2nd edition that EGG was working on, after he had mentioned it a few times in Dragon. Unearthed Arcana was more or less officially acknowledged as a 2nd edition preview/early look.
From what EGG was saying, 2nd edition was just going to have more classes and such, including the ones that made their way into Unearthed Arcana, as well as others we never saw, such as the Mountebank Gary mentioned a time or two.
So there was definitely speculation about new editions back in the day.
The (relatively) recent release of 3.5 after 3.0 is definitely the source of the current speculation, even if there was speculation back in the day, too. The reason is, 3.5 supported everyone's best and worst notions about D&D.
If you were cynical and jaded, then 3.5 was your worst fear realized. WOTC was a soulless corporation sucking hard-earned cash from its helpless customers, and 3.5 proved it. And since they got away with it then, there's no reason they won't try it again every few years, and we're now at four years for 3.5. We're looking at a dark dismal future of endless edition progression until we throw off the shackles of Hasbro and live in a utopia where everyone plays (INSERT FAVORITE EDITION HERE).
If you were optimistic and idealistic, then 3.5 was fantastic! Sure, it didn't fix everything, but it made a lot of stuff better. It wasn't that hard switching over, considering how much better your game plays now. If they improved the system that much in three years, how much BETTER will it be now? We're looking at a bright future of continually improved mechanics, making our favorite game better than ever!
So, the people who hated 3.5 fear 4.0, and the people who loved 3.5 anticipate 4.0. Or, sometimes, the people who hated 3.5 anticipate 4.0 and the people who loved 3.5 fear 4.0. Either way, 3.5 so polarized everyone's reaction to a new edition that it's now a part of how we talk about D&D, possibly forever.
If you were cynical and jaded, then 3.5 was your worst fear realized. WOTC was a soulless corporation sucking hard-earned cash from its helpless customers, and 3.5 proved it. And since they got away with it then, there's no reason they won't try it again every few years, and we're now at four years for 3.5. We're looking at a dark dismal future of endless edition progression until we throw off the shackles of Hasbro and live in a utopia where everyone plays (INSERT FAVORITE EDITION HERE).
If you were optimistic and idealistic, then 3.5 was fantastic! Sure, it didn't fix everything, but it made a lot of stuff better. It wasn't that hard switching over, considering how much better your game plays now. If they improved the system that much in three years, how much BETTER will it be now? We're looking at a bright future of continually improved mechanics, making our favorite game better than ever!
So, the people who hated 3.5 fear 4.0, and the people who loved 3.5 anticipate 4.0. Or, sometimes, the people who hated 3.5 anticipate 4.0 and the people who loved 3.5 fear 4.0. Either way, 3.5 so polarized everyone's reaction to a new edition that it's now a part of how we talk about D&D, possibly forever.
PhantomNarrator
First Post
Blame 3.5
Absolutely. We wouldn't be talking about 4ed. if it wasn't for the way WotC badly bungled the 3.5 "revision." It created an expectation, one that I think is hurting the game and hurting sales too. I know some people who stopped buying after that fiasco on the expectation that 3.5 would be obsolete within a couple of years as well. I for one hope not to see the announcement of 4.0 until 2009 at the earliest, but I expect it will come earlier than that.
My fear is that WotC will be pressured by Hasbro to make D&D more of a "toy" type game than the book-centered game I grew up with. I expect some Ivy League MBA at Hasbro corporate HQ will come up with the "brilliant" suggestion of abandoning all those old fans in favor of chasing the "WizKids" demographic by merging Magic: The Gathering type toys with "D&D" rules. The result will be unlikely to satisfy either fan base.
S'mon said:
Absolutely. We wouldn't be talking about 4ed. if it wasn't for the way WotC badly bungled the 3.5 "revision." It created an expectation, one that I think is hurting the game and hurting sales too. I know some people who stopped buying after that fiasco on the expectation that 3.5 would be obsolete within a couple of years as well. I for one hope not to see the announcement of 4.0 until 2009 at the earliest, but I expect it will come earlier than that.
My fear is that WotC will be pressured by Hasbro to make D&D more of a "toy" type game than the book-centered game I grew up with. I expect some Ivy League MBA at Hasbro corporate HQ will come up with the "brilliant" suggestion of abandoning all those old fans in favor of chasing the "WizKids" demographic by merging Magic: The Gathering type toys with "D&D" rules. The result will be unlikely to satisfy either fan base.
What else is there to talk about?
Seriously. The rules forum has hashed 3.0 and 3.5 rules to death. Other than the occasional new prc question or telling a newbie how it is, there is little to do there.
House rules? I see the same house rules over and over again, well occasionally there's a new gem, mostly its people trying to house rule something the way half the community has been doing it forever.
General? A bit about star wars lately, an oots strip every couple of days, but again, what else should we talk about?
4e is an exciting idea, people can post all kinds of things, whether its possible mechanics, the rise and fall of dnd due to it, when its coming out, etc etc. To me, its as simple as that.
Seriously. The rules forum has hashed 3.0 and 3.5 rules to death. Other than the occasional new prc question or telling a newbie how it is, there is little to do there.
House rules? I see the same house rules over and over again, well occasionally there's a new gem, mostly its people trying to house rule something the way half the community has been doing it forever.
General? A bit about star wars lately, an oots strip every couple of days, but again, what else should we talk about?
4e is an exciting idea, people can post all kinds of things, whether its possible mechanics, the rise and fall of dnd due to it, when its coming out, etc etc. To me, its as simple as that.
Masquerade
First Post
I agree that most of the speculation of 4e is a result of 3.5. That said, I am a huge fan of 3.5 and certainly feel that releasing it was the right decision on WotC's part.
That's actually the best argument for 4e I've heard yet. Despite sharing some of the fears expressed by others on the subject, I am cautiously interested in what the next edition will bring.
Nifft said:
That's actually the best argument for 4e I've heard yet. Despite sharing some of the fears expressed by others on the subject, I am cautiously interested in what the next edition will bring.
Honestly? I find all the 4E talk to be two things: 1) Presumptuous on the level of Chicken Little, and 2) Irrelevant in the extreme.
D&D right now as of this moment is a complete system. WotC could stop producing supplements and never publish another gaming book again, and it would still be a complete system. Thus, the people clamoring that 4E will be the death knell of gaming are illogical, because it cannot take away what you currently have.
I mean, if they make a new expansion, are people going to come to your house/gaming store/storm drain and ticket you for playing an outdated edition? No, you keep doing what you're doing. I know plenty of people who still play AD&D even after 3rd Edition came out. There's a googleplex of material out there, and if people are afraid that suddenly WotC won't make an official "Mostest Completest Warlock II" book under the current rules, then frankly there's just no pleasing them.
4E, *IF* it ever happens, will be the same thing 3E was. A new game that in no way negates the old one or can lessen your enjoyment of it.
D&D right now as of this moment is a complete system. WotC could stop producing supplements and never publish another gaming book again, and it would still be a complete system. Thus, the people clamoring that 4E will be the death knell of gaming are illogical, because it cannot take away what you currently have.
I mean, if they make a new expansion, are people going to come to your house/gaming store/storm drain and ticket you for playing an outdated edition? No, you keep doing what you're doing. I know plenty of people who still play AD&D even after 3rd Edition came out. There's a googleplex of material out there, and if people are afraid that suddenly WotC won't make an official "Mostest Completest Warlock II" book under the current rules, then frankly there's just no pleasing them.
4E, *IF* it ever happens, will be the same thing 3E was. A new game that in no way negates the old one or can lessen your enjoyment of it.
I think part of the reason is the change in how the ruleset is viewed in 3rd ed.:
Back, when I played AD&D 1st or 2nd ed. it was impossible to find two gaming groups which used the same set of rules. Everyone house-ruled happily away - because you just had to. There simply were too many situations that weren't covered by the rules. So whenever someone didn't like something about the rules, it was changed.
Starting with 3rd ed. you suddenly had an official rule for every situation. The ruleset had become so complex that it took me several years of experience playing it, before I dared introduce house-rules, lest I break game-balance. Now, when someone is unhappy about a rule or finds a gap in the ruleset the first reaction is to ask for an official rule clarification or errata.
Back, when I played AD&D 1st or 2nd ed. it was impossible to find two gaming groups which used the same set of rules. Everyone house-ruled happily away - because you just had to. There simply were too many situations that weren't covered by the rules. So whenever someone didn't like something about the rules, it was changed.
Starting with 3rd ed. you suddenly had an official rule for every situation. The ruleset had become so complex that it took me several years of experience playing it, before I dared introduce house-rules, lest I break game-balance. Now, when someone is unhappy about a rule or finds a gap in the ruleset the first reaction is to ask for an official rule clarification or errata.
