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Why hate onthe drow? (Forked Thread: How is FR changing with 4E?)

Midnight Dawns

First Post
Forked from: How is FR changing with 4E?

Rechan said:
Elminster will get less tail.

Keeping Drizzt around... They should have officially put a bullet in that elf. Why it has to be "Novel = Canon", I don't know. The Big NPCs are fan wank as it is, anyways.

Over the years I have noticed a large amount of hate directed at Drizz't. Why? What is it about the character that drives people to hate him so? Is it just the way eveyopne seemsto want to copy him? (Side note scimitar duel wielding ranger does not = Drizz't clone. Pet peeve of mine as i thought of doing that long before I every heard of Drizz't.) So what exactly makes you guys hate him?
 

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Dragonbait

Explorer
Forked from: How is FR changing with 4E?
Over the years I have noticed a large amount of hate directed at Drizz't. Why? What is it about the character that drives people to hate him so? Is it just the way eveyopne seemsto want to copy him? (Side note scimitar duel wielding ranger does not = Drizz't clone. Pet peeve of mine as i thought of doing that long before I every heard of Drizz't.) So what exactly makes you guys hate him?

It's because he is the most popular FR character. The biggest dog in the yard is the one all the smaller dogs want to take down. Also, like you said, there are so many Drizz't clones running around. AND the drow in general are super-popular most likely due to Drizz't and the spider-web bikinis and many people feel that they were force-fed drow info.
 

renau1g

First Post
I think it's due to the Drizzt.... ranger clones. Also, 3e/4e's ranger(s) is based heavily on the mystical two-sword style of said character.... I just don't see how being trained to be stealthy, etc. in the forest and wielding two blades have in common?

Except, of course, because Drizzt used them and I don't like that explanation. I love the books and have purchased them all in hardcover (because I can't wait the year until they come in softcover). I truly hope they make a movie of the books, because that would be soooo much better than the attempts to date.
 



A confluence of events. The changing of the drow from an evil, scary menace to a 'I'm just misunderstood' powergamers wet dream. The uberness of Drizzt and the many wannabe's that started popping up in games. The generally crappy D&D fiction that had the Realms campaign setting playing second fiddle to the Realms novels. The corruption of the ranger archetype.

Most of all, the players that embraced all of those things and wouldn't/couldn't let it go allready.
 

Set

First Post
What is it about the character that drives people to hate him so?

A) It's trendy. We are automata, mindlessly trudging forward with our torches and pitchforks, because someone told us that it was kewl to hate on Drizzt, and, being socially clueless, we wouldn't have any idea what to hate on our own without being led along by the nose.

B) He's the Wolverine of AD&D, and if you've ever run a superhero game and had a player tell you that he wanted to play Wolverine, 'but with lazors for claws!1!', you'll understand the feeling of shame that falls upon a DM who is asked by a player if he can play 'a Drow Elf, but good, and with two swords! That are on fire! He's like a pirate *that's secretly a ninja!*'

C) Drow were pretty darn sexy and cool and evocative. Drizzt isn't a bad character, but he's changed the face of a *powerful* and iconic brand. 'Old-school' gamers feel another tiny fragment of the shriveled husks that are their dead souls peel off and spiral into the Abyss when they hear a novel-enthusiast gush about good Eilistraee or that cool lonely misunderstood guy who spends half of every novel explaining to a magic panther named after King Arthur's wife how all alone and misunderstood he is, despite having entire cities worth of people who celebrate and break out the beer and hawt wimmin when he shows up.

Not that he seems to really like beer or hawt wimmin...

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

D) R.A. Salvatore decided to change the spelling of Lolth to Lloth, and the chaotic evil demon-worshipping dark elves of Greyhawk into a fanatically uber-lawful highly-stratified and caste-centric society worshipping a crazy tyrant of a greater goddess who makes *Bane* look like an easy-going and lenient sort of fellow (particularly in the novels, where the average Banite Zhentarim behaves *vastly* less lawfully than the average priestess of Lloth).

E) Drow themselves were the ultimate joykiller 'bitter DMs revenge' encounter in AD&D. They all had magic items, that dissolved in the hands of PCs. They all had two-weapon fighting. They all had spell-like abilities that blinded the party, and didn't affect them. They all had poison weapons that were darn near impossible to resist. They all had magic resistance, and waved their private parts at the party's impotent Magic-Users. Being unreasonable and reactionary, we try to forget how much they freaking *sucked*, and have romanticized them into something glorious and iconic, so that any change at all, to make them *less* deliberately cruel and unfair (like not having magic items that rot in sunlight) or losing some of their resistance to magic is denounced as messing with a golden age that never truly existed.

F) 2nd edition, Hall of Heroes, where Drizzt was a Fighter/Ranger with a bunch of Thief abilities and the ability to kill people that was dropped from the Assassin class that no longer existed in the game. Drow, naturally, couldn't be half of that stuff, but Drizzt didn't care. Once is fine, an exceptional heroic figure and all, not like those limited fools that you get to play, 'cause he's all specialer than you, but it became an epidemic, with Drow being presented as Chaotic Evil Cleric/Psionicists or whatever and it became more and more obvious that Drizzt wasn't a kewl exception who was more special than any player character could ever be, but was in fact a symptom of a special new disease sweeping the Realms that caused all DMNPCs to utterly ignore the rules and be universally cooler and better than any player character. Some of us played the game so that *our* characters could be the heroes, but found that the pesky rules prevented us from playing Cleric/Fighter/Magic-User/Thief/Psionicist Rakshasa.

Still, we persevered, until novel-reading fans came along and said, 'Oh, I'm going to play a Spellfire Wielding Faerie Dragon Princess' and we said, 'No, that's kind of against the rules, how about a Gnome Illusionist' and they pouted and said, 'But Drizzt...' and we realized that it wasn't *Drizzt* who was evil, he was merely being used as an excuse to justify an insidious evil that only continued with each new novel and supplement, an evil called 'Hi, I'm a professional game designer / best-selling author, and I can't be bothered to learn the rules to this stupid game, so why should you?

G) Drizzt ran over my wife and eloped with my dog.

H) Dark Elves at my baby.

I) Your reason here.
 
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Personally, I don't loathe Drizzt, that much. He's a little dull, but apart from his appearance in Hall of Heroes 2E, he's never been ridiculously overpowered and grossly offensive like some of the FR NPCs, some who have consistently violated practically every possible rule (often quite unecessarily) and generally had/done things that no PC ever could have.

I really don't like, however, that he popularized the whole "Oh I'm just misunderstood!" deal, whereby certain people are absolutely desperate to play members of evil races (inevitably glamourous/attractive evil races, never ugly/thuggish ones) who aren't evil like the rest of them.

What's particularly offensive about Drizzt, too, is that he seems to be good without a reason, just born that way (and when I read them, the Homeland books just reinforced this feeling), which encourages further sloppy/lazy characterization and a general view that people are somehow born with a specific "alignment" or strict behaviour-pattern. Which seems like a really crappy view for supposedly intelligent humanoid races.

Also, if you played in 2E, unless you played with a hyper-specific group of people, you inevitably met people practically demanding to be allowed to play Drow, and using Drizzt as the reason why, and then yes, acting exactly like Drizzt (the ol' "Wolverine" syndrome, as Set points out). Further, many Drow or Elf-related products seemed to go out of their way to support this particular annoying idiocy, wasting pages and further encouraging it. You could always say no, as a DM, but it was annoying nonetheless.

Really though, to hell with misunderstood loners and overpowered hyper-magical races.

At least 3E made it so that it was no longer "all good" to be a Drow, and for 4E, it's kind of crappy and people mock you for having the same stat mods as a Halfling, which gets two thumbs up from me! So essentially most of the problems he created, apart from lame-ing-up the Drow, have gone away, but we're still bitter. Well, some of us. I'm a lot less bitter than I was in 2E, I can tell you.
 

Overexposure. We've heard too much about him and how perfect he is for years now, and now for the most part, we don't want to hear any more.

Not that I hate Driz'zt or the drow, actually, but I'm also profoundly disinterested in them at this point.
 

renau1g

First Post
I did always wonder how a supposedly Chaotic Evil race had assembled themselves into perfect castes, and had such a lawful-aligned (at least based on the definition in the PHB) city in Menzoberanzen (spelled wrong I'm sure).
 

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