D&D 5E Why I Am Starting to Prefer 4d6 Drop the Lowest Over the Default Array.

[Zardnaar]

That's another aspect that doesn't sit will with me. The implication that if you didn't roll greater than normal stats, you better play only a limited amount of class types. Bollocks. Play whatever class you want, regardless of the stats you have. Anyone who tried to suggest or push another player into a class based the stat rolls would have a conversation with me about if they are a good fit for my table.



I know. I mentioned that in the part you deleted from my quote.

I'm not big on PCs playing Potatoes and letting the party down so to speak. Its not gonna end well if you have a melee based PC with 12 strength or dex for example.

 

[MNblockhead]

I picked up 5e after not having played since basic and AD&D 1e.

My initial reaction: "You mean I can choose WHICH ability gets which roll instead of rolling them in order? Wow!"

My favorite is now 4d6, drop lowest, and assign to a score. But rolling 3d6 and assigning in order and learning to make do with what you were "born" with is its own kinda fun, which seems to be lost on newer generations of players.

 

[Satyrn]

Put simply it seems to fix certain classes if you roll high and it makes things like TWF more viable and it also makes medium armor suck less.

Huh. My gnome paladin, built with the default array, dual wields rapiers in breastplate. He is totally viable and does not suck. (Be quiet, [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION]!)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I know. I mentioned that in the part you deleted from my quote.

Huh. Reading fail on my part. I even went back to your post after reading the above and looked for references to moon druids--couldn't see anything until I did a Ctrl-F "Moon druid" and then I finally saw your last sentence. Fail on my part.

Statistically though you wouldn't expect THAT many Moon Druids. IME about 25% of rolls are noticeably poor, moon druid territory; another 25% or so are roughly competitive with what you'd get out of point buy; and about 50% are slightly or significantly better than what you'd get out of point buy. For example, here's six consecutive rolls from BrockJones http://www.brockjones.com/dieroller/dice.htm (4d6 drop lowest):

#1: 14, 15, 12, 17, 13, 11
#2: 14, 12, 12, 13, 13, 18
#3: 14, 5, 13, 12, 11, 11
#4: 11, 15, 12, 9, 10, 16
#5: 11, 12, 10, 15, 13, 9
#6: 14, 10, 10, 16, 13, 14

Rolls #1, #2, #4, and #6 are all better than anything you could get with point buy or standard array; rolls #3 and #5 are roughly comparable with point buy. You don't have to turn #3 into a Moon Druid, but you could if you wanted to, and it would be about as much fun as any other Moon Druid in 5E. Or you could turn it into a a multiclassed Fighter/Necromancer, or a Life Cleric/Enchanter X tank*, or a Swashbuckler, perhaps with a dash of Battlemaster. You couldn't really turn #3 or #5 into an effective monk, let alone a monklock or warbearian, but that's the breaks. When you roll dice you're acknowledging that the outcome is at least partly in the hands of the dice--you can play a warbearian some other time.

* For example:

Zahel the Grumpy, Warmaster of Kholin
Str 16 (14+1+1), Dex 11, Con 11, Int 13 (12+1), Wis 13, Cha 5 // variant human, Heavy Armor Master; the extra +1 to Strength is part of HAM
Life Cleric 1, Enchanter 4.
Feats: Heavy Armor Master, Lucky
AC 19 (splint mail + shield), HP 24
Spells: Booming Blade, Shield, Blur, Absorb Elements, Web, Phantasmal Force; Cure Wounds, Shield of Faith
Athletics +6
DC 12 on spells and Hypnotic Pattern (compare to DC 15 for an Int 18 wizard--not that much difference really; you'll see a difference about 1 time in 6)

This guy is perfectly serviceable as a tank or off-healer; has a good melee attack; can grapple and/or Hypnotic Gaze enemies in the front line; even has some crowd control. He's interesting to play, despite having low-ish rolls. You might not want to take him all the way up to 20th level, depending on how much you like investing in underdogs; but I don't think you can deny that Zahel's rolls aren't getting in the way of having a good time on any given day when you do play him.

 

[Lanefan]

When 5E came out we used the default array for the PCs. After a year or so we started using 4d6 drop the lowest. It tends to result in higher scores than the default array. Put simply I think 5E function better and it opens up more options with higher ability scores.

Put simply it seems to fix certain classes if you roll high and it makes things like TWF more viable and it also makes medium armor suck less. It also makes things like the hypothetical Mountain Dwarf wizard or Sorcerer more viable.

All of the gish classes also look a lot better if you roll higher ability scores. If you roll crap the Moon Druid is a great class along with the Morph from EN5ider. A main problem of all the gish classes in the PHB with the exception of the Paladin is multiple ability dependency (MAD). Put simply to be effective you need a good physical score, spellcasting stat, decent con, and dex as well if you are using medium armor. Put simply you kind of want 4 stats 14 or higher or a 14 dex with medium armor or 15 strength in heavy armor. Valor Bards are a prime example as they want a decent attack stat, charisma, dex and con. Most of the gish also are not proficient in con saves.

The dex based melee classes and TWF also tend to get over shadowed due to certain feats (unless you are having a featless game then dex is super stat). This is because you want to get a 20 dex ASAP so you can get your 17 or 19 AC (AC 18-20 strength based generally). With point buy you can get 20 dex by level 6 or 8. A 20 strength is nice for a strength based fighter but 18 strength+ feat is a great option as your AC is not keyed to your strength score.

Other options that tend to be a bit meh are things like Bladedancers in SCAG. Under point buy they are not actually that good at erm blade dancing and you are better off usgin it to enhance your AC, movement and concentration rolls than attempt to be a bad fighter. Our Bladedancer rolls 3 scores over 16 and with racial modifiers + resilient(con) feat she has 3 18's at level 4 (con, int, dex). She plays a very aggressive wizard suffice to say in regards to melee and uses flaming sphere+ melee attacks (1d8+4+2d6+2d6 damage lvl 4).

How is it possible that while I disagree or dislike just about every supporting point raised in this post I still find myself arriving at the same conclusion: rolling is and will always be better.

Now and then I just want to play something with outrageously good stats...it'd be nice. And I'm due.

Other times it's fun to play with a starting '6' in something (usually Wisdom!), which neither point buy nor array can provide.

And sometimes the challenge of bringing something along that has horrible or bland stats compared to the rest of the party is worth the effort, just for the satisfaction of pulling it off. It certainly doesn't happen every time.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

Huh. My gnome paladin, built with the default array, dual wields rapiers in breastplate. He is totally viable and does not suck. (Be quiet, [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION]!)

Let me get this straight:

It's a gnome.
It's a paladin.
It dual-wields rapiers (doubtless this was inspired by Drizz't).

That's three strikes.

The planet-sized thumb of god comes down. When it lifts there's a squashed and mangled breastplate on the ground, out from under which is oozing some red sticky goo; while a booming voice heard most of the way across the universe intones "YOU'RE OUT!".

Lan-"the umpire strikes back"-efan

 

[Azzy]

Huh. My gnome paladin, built with the default array, dual wields rapiers in breastplate. He is totally viable and does not suck. (Be quiet, [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION]!)

I don't believe that's a real character. I don't care. I'm not listening. La la la la la!!!

 

[Dualazi]

*Note, this isn't meant to pick on you as a new thing, per se, because after 35 years of gaming, it's always interesting to see how everyone always has higher stats for their PCs than what the math would suggest.

I've fallen victim to the opposite in the campaign my table just started. Rolled 6,7,9,11,12,15. Decided to roll a dwarven gunsmith artificer, we'll see how long he lasts with a spread like that.

 

[Horwath]

4d6 drop lowest is all fine while you are on above average rolls.

When you get the short end you will notice it more.

More misses. More failed saves.

Lower life expectancy overall.

Sent from my HummerLE using EN World mobile app

 

[Rabbitbait]

I picked up 5e after not having played since basic and AD&D 1e.

My initial reaction: "You mean I can choose WHICH ability gets which roll instead of rolling them in order? Wow!"

My favorite is now 4d6, drop lowest, and assign to a score. But rolling 3d6 and assigning in order and learning to make do with what you were "born" with is its own kinda fun, which seems to be lost on newer generations of players.

I've told my players that in the next game it will be 4d6 drop lowest, but in order. Once you have your stats then you decide your race, class, background etc.