Why I Don't Like 3.5 Damage Resistance

[Voadam]

Hmm..weird.

Well what they actually did was split DR from the ability to pierce other DR and make them seperate qualities. Alignment descriptor empowers your blows as the alignment whether you have DR yourself or not.

I'm not aware of anything giving the ability to overcome specific damage type DR (slashing, etc.) or material DR except things that actually qualify.

Magic DR is just generally the exception to the rule and I'm not sure why that is.

 

[Testament]

Just one question to those who dislike 3.5 DR. That being, in 3.0, how many people bothered to get special properties placed on their weapons? How many do so in 3.5?

Personally I love the new system, now Lycanthropes can actually be scary, while by the same token, fiends and other high DR critters are no longer "GAH! We don't have a +3 weapon, its DR of 30 means we're gonna die!"

Now DR can actually be pierced by sheer damage, fighters usually PA through it IME, but it still makes life tougher.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

You know, I kept hearing how PCs would be carrying around 'golf bags' of weapons.

It hasn't happened. Generally there is some 'stacking' of types goin' on. The Paladin has a +2 holy silver longsword and a +2 holy cold iron warhammer. And because we use gunpowder he has a pouch of silver bullets for the one shot he might get against a werewolf at range as well as his ordinary bullets. Most of the PCs don't bother with more than one holy weapon.

Same with my Planescape (Steampunkish version thereof) character. He carries two weapons...a +4 Sword of the Planes (steel) and a +4 Bane (Chaotic Outsiders) Holy Axiomatic Returning Greatspear (cold iron). Granted, he has the Gauntlets Arcane from PGtF (so he can ignore DR n/silver) and an unslotted Golembane Scarab (for the ritual smiting of golems), and he carries a rifle, but he hasn't fired it in six RL months.

Ironically, my 3.0 Birthright character had more of a golf bag, with, at one point, five weapon combinations that he could use (depending on how he felt at the time).

But I do like the idea of Minor, Medium, and Major magic for the purposes of DR, I think that I will bounce it off the players to see what they think.

I think that's probably a bit more work than necessary, since you already have Minor Magic (i.e. DR n/magic) and Major Magic (DR n/epic).

Brad

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I have to say that I much prefer 3.5 DR. I think of it as magic being such a part of the world that there is some special magic in materials - silver, cold iron, lead, and others. And magic takes many forms, so the magic in silver cannot be easily replicated.

3.0 DR is easier to bypass - you never need wonder what it will take to affect the monster, the answer is always GMW or GMF - but quite tough to bust through without Power Attack or a very high-Str build. 3.5 DR is easier to overpower but harder to bypass. Beyond being more flavorful, it's also more fun for when the DM throws unknown new monsters at the party, as you don't know right away how to best fight it.

What's odd is that my DM is primarily using 3.0 DR (hasn't got the new MM) but I am using 3.5 DR for my druid's summons, spells, and wildshapes. I wonder if this would cause any problems.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Ah, but it does. Every +1 of a weapon's enhancement adds +1 to that weapon's damage. More damage = more likely to overcome DR and deal at least some damage, instead of none. If you have a +5 sword, its +5 enhancement bonus pretty much negates DR 5/xyz.

It works another way, too; for each +1 to hit, that's additional power attack damage that you can get.

When upgrading my Planescape character's sword, I found that the easiest way to increase his damage curve was to increase the enhancement bonus on his sword.

Brad

 

[maddman75]

One advantage of the 3.0 rules was that getting an item enchanted was generally more of a trade off. Do you get an extra plus, or give your weapon a Keen or energy enchantment? With the plus, you do a bit more damage and hit a bit more often, and will be in good shape to hit creatures with DR. Other enchantments don't give any advantage against DR, but are much more effective against everything. 3.5 it would seem that basic enchantment is undercosted.

I do something like psion's rule. I like cold iron for fey and silver for lycanthropes, but lawful and chaotic do nothing for me. Same with adamanitine. Silver, Iron, and Holy are good by me. The rest can keep their pluses.

 

[Hida Bukkorosu]

i like 3.5 dr for the reason, as said before, that it makes materials like silver actually mean something. plus it ties in better with fantasy lore, needing silver to kill the werewolf instead of just a "+1"

 

[Brennin Magalus]

"Alchemical silver" and "cold iron" do nothing for me, and I oppose "epic" DR (as I oppose the ELH in general).

 

[Staffan]

As for fiends not being able to hurt each other...did they eliminate the rule that creatures with a certain DR can overcome their own DR with their natural attacks?

Yes. Now there are two instances of natural DR penetration:
* Any creature with DR X/magic treats its natural attacks as magic as well.
* A creature with an alignment subtype treats both natural and manufactured weapons as having that alignment.

I have instituted a house rule that says that alignment-based DR is penetrated by both opposed alignments. So a devil which would normally have DR 10/good instead has DR 10/good or chaos. This fixes the problem of fiends having a hard time hurting one another.

 

[swrushing]

A very finely constructed argument, which would hold water were it not for a few things...

"i cast magic missile and he takes 17."
"I throw lightning bolt, save for half."
"i cast hold monster. Save or..."
"I hit him with melf's Ice Arrow, which i had memoried thinking we would see salamanders."
etc etc

In the werewolf legends you want to recreate, the werewolf was also not brought down by low level mage spells which were able to bypass his tremendous invulnerability like knifes thru butter either.

DND is VERy clear that magic does absolutely bypass DR, time after time after time after time, whether low level magic like magic missiles against really high Dr or not. It just goes right thru.

Unless of course its magic on a magic weapon. Magic on a magic weapon is inferior to say "silver or iron". technically tho, i would guess if the magic on a magic weapon is magic like fire or cold, then it goes right thru, ignoring DR.

Snow Elf Warrior: "My blade is made of enchanted ice taken from the lair of the dragon of winter. But hand me that dinked up silver plated shortsword, cuz these werewolfs are tough."

Mage Companion: "Don't worry. i got Freezing Hands prepared and it will cut the werewolf down quick enough. if nothing else, i got magic missile to fall back on."

Cleric companion: "And if that doesn't do it, i got my spiritual hammer, which being a force effect..."

Old gypsy Woman in the corner shakes head "Somet'ing t'lls me I 'm in wrong legend!" aSpits and walks out.

"all you need is a hammer"??? yup, one called "magic missile"

And this is the #1 reason why I love it.

Think of legends. The legends don't say "werewolves can be harmed only by silver... or magic." They just say "silver." Ditto for fae and iron.

Imagine the great lycanthrope hunter of legend, Fritz. When he's first starting out, he carries a silvered long sword. As he grows more powerful, he decides he needs an enchanted blade and commissions one.

The next time Fritz is called upon by a burgomeister to rid the area of werewolves, he says, "This talisman was specially forged to cut through werewolves," as he draws his sleek new cold iron sword ('cause he likes black).

Does Fritz look cool? Does he look like a legendary hunter of lycanthropes? Does he look heroic? No. He looks like the moron who brought a knife to a gun fight.

Even if you throw away the legends of silver and what-not, all you really are doing is saying that if you bring a LAW rocket into play, it trumps any mystic symbolism. Forget the screwdriver -- all you need is a hammer. Bigger and stronger is always better than intelligence and planning. Just more 'kewl toyz' with which to play and more 'power-ups' to gather.