Why I hate Point-Buy (and D&D 3.0 and beyond)!

[Darrin Drader]

I completely agree that this is an issue, however I don't consider it a fault with 3.0, but rather a strength of the system. You can play virtually whatever you want without having to create a ton of house rules to do it. If you do want to just play a stock character, you are always free to use the starting packages supplied with each of the core classes. Of course having a non-obsessive-compulsive personality, I don't easily fall into the same traps.

 

[jdrake3]

me too

I created a handy Excel file that automatically derives final scores based on how many points you spend. It even looks up and includes racial modifiers, and gives you your starting skill points based on class, Int bonus, and race bonus (if human). I can email it to you if you want--it saves loads of time.

-z, spending way too much time obsessing over his own backup character for Living Greyhawk.

Can I have a copy too?

 

[Grapeshot]

Done.

I'd like a copy too

If you want I can host it for you and give you a link to share with others.

Wait (before I put foot in mouth) provided you haven't some how managed to make this a 500 gig file or some crazy stuff like that. I'm assuming it's less than a meg or so?

Email jck98@alltel.net

 

[Ruvion]

Can also have a copy of that wonderful Excel file, Zaruthustran?

email: ruvion@hanmail.net

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dr. Confoundo]

Maybe you should start calling it OCD&D?

 

[Mormanth]

I don't.

Point-buy is a good system.

First, time to create a character in 3E is longer because you have more options.

Dice rolling does nothing to save time in character creation. You rolls your stats, then do the same thing. Figure out what character you could be, figure out all the racial bonuses, then try to prepare feats planning three level down the road, then try to assign 24 skill points in 12 different skills, then check the domain spells, etc., etc., etc. We'll if I'm a ranger... let's see... twenty minutes later. Nope. not enough skill points. Hey who about wizard ...

With the point purchase system you get to select what class you want up front and put in your ability scores to suit. If you want fast character generation, go fighter, or use the templates in the PHB for skill selection. Then you don't have to worry about skill points and spells taking days.

In 1E, I used to watch players select a die roll system, then roll. Then complain because they didn't have enough points to be a paladin, then reroll for two hours trying to get a 17 cha and an 18 strength. Point-buy does away with this.

In 3E, the difference between a character lucky character which has say 18, 16, 15, 12, 11, 8, and an unlucky character with 14, 13, 12, 10, 10, 6. Is pretty significant. Maybe everyone can accept it for a few levels, but pretty soon the one character is going to be stealing the show from the other.

Equality is a good side effect of point-buy.

 

[ph34r]

Why not burn the excel file to a bazillion CD's, mail them to WotC, and have them put it in the back of the new PHB's? That way everyone gets one!

 

[paulewaug]

Sorry, I have to agree with Mormanth.
IMHO of course

I seldom roll well when rolling up a character, and I have played with an occasional person that seems to always roll well.
Even on the times I got lucky and rolled really well and maybe ended up with higher stats, there still is an imbalance between a high roller's stats and the unfortunate rolls of someone that has the dice turn against them.

Point buy allows everyone to start with the same potential, and if you decide not to max out your stats potential compared to another player that is fine. You still have the same number of stat points and it was your decision to make the character that way.

Also, when rolling stats it is my experience that there is still a form of mini-maxing going on. You roll the stats and then still have to decide how to get the most out of the stats you rolled up... Putting the highest rolls where it does the most good and the lowest where it does the least harm.

That said though...I do have to say that rolling your PCs stats does allow more potential to have some unusual flavor for your pc. The fall of the dice can help you determine what your pc is like. You may decide that they are weak, dumb, fat, thin, ugly, hot tempered, self conscious, brilliant, nimble, clumsy, had a bad childhood or some rare illness that affected their abilites-
all on the fall of the dice.
So rolling Can help with the Role play process and pc concept before you even start.

But if you know what you want to play and how, and you want to the group to be on even ground, I prefer the point buy.

As said all IMHO of course!

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

He's not talking about point buy vs. dice rolling. He's talking about point buy games (Champions, GURPS, etc) vs. old-school D&D. His point is that 3E is becoming so overwhelmed by feats and PrCs and what have you that it's approaching the complexity of a point buy game, where your options are almost unlimited.

 

[paulewaug]

ahh well then perhaps I misunderstood the question, heh

But even so I still stand by the essance of my statement.
I prefer a game that uses a point buy system.
Having just made up several characters in Savage Worlds, which uses a point buy system, I have to say it is nice to have everybody start off at a fair and even point and let them take it from there.

Although there is still a degree of fun in "rolling up characters."

So it Is nice that Dnd/D&D accommodates both easily, and it doesn't have to be any more complicated than you want it to be.

I also recently went back to the old Basic&Expert ("Red book & Blue Book) D&D. The simplicity was nice, but I found my self apprecating skills and such to help resovle situations. Granted it doesn't Have to be that way, you can always find a way to resolve things as a DM. But that works both ways.

Add and subtract rules as you see fit. They are supposed to be guidlines. Sometimes the rules are so ingrained in the system thought that this is not really worth the work.

Although I don't see these as being a concern with a point buy vs. roll it up kind of system.
Perhaps I am still missing the point. If so-sorry!