Why is a Druid so friggin' awesome?

[radmod]

In all seriousness, why is a Druid so friggin' awesome?

Before anyone jumps on me, let me explain why I don't understand.

I DM far more than I play. Over the decades, I've only seen maybe half a dozen players play a Druid (only two since 3.5). Most would whine about not being able to do anything, or about being weak. The sole exception was one 2e druid who was friggin' unkillable but I always attributed that to the player (the best I've even seen, maybe even better than me). Also entangle used to be super powerful.

At face value, the Druid seems relatively weak though well rounded. For combat it has low AC and limited fighting capability. For spells, it seems to have few daily spells available, and a limited and relatively weak selection. While wildshape could be potentially powerful it doesn't seem to stack up to other classes (perhaps the wildshape feats kick ass?). I will admit that most players don't realize how good pounce can be. These are why I think I haven't seen many people even want to be druids. The ones who have played them did so for flavor and then thought them weak.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Look at your options: you get them all.

An NPC Fighter (animal companion) as a class feature.
Summoning ability spotaneous (if sacrifice a spell slot)
Wild Shape.

Some people are too cautious with Animal companion, but those things are awesome if used for fighting.

Wilde Shape means you can dump Str/Dex since the new form changes these. Want to have 26+ Str? polar bear.

Summon Nature Ally: options mean you can spam bears to kill the enemy, unicorns, etc.

Remember all this + 3/4th bab + full casting.

You can try reading this if want more:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0

For Lower level Summoning:
Wolves are great SNA 1, SNA 2 has hippogriff/crocodile, SNA Dire Wolf (or 1d3 wolves), SNA 4 when bears appear (or 1d3 Dire Wolves) + tigers + Uniocorns.

Remember each wolf gets to trip after it hits with bite. Multiple of them mean multiple trips.

 

[Dandu]

I DM far more than I play. Over the decades, I've only seen maybe half a dozen players play a Druid (only two since 3.5).

That's the important part. 3.5 is different enough from previous editions that you really can't draw on lessons from 1e or 2e.

Starbuck listed some good reasons, but I feel more and more that practical demonstrations really do convey points the best, so if you would like a practical demonstration I would be happy to make a druid.

 

[radmod]

so if you would like a practical demonstration I would be happy to make a druid.

No thanks! Anything you would make up would frickin scare me! (That's a compliment, BTW)

 

[DumbPaladin]

That's the important part. 3.5 is different enough from previous editions that you really can't draw on lessons from 1e or 2e.

Starbuck listed some good reasons, but I feel more and more that practical demonstrations really do convey points the best, so if you would like a practical demonstration I would be happy to make a druid.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing that at all. We also have a player in our group -- completely new to D&D -- who is having a hard time figuring out how to maximize her druid's effectiveness. She has stated several times in the past that she feels useless, which is strange to hear when so many people on the internet say druids are overpowered.

 

[Dandu]

Andal Durrak, Dwarf Druid

Cast Shillelagh and have the quarterstaff deal 3d6+9 damage with an AB of +13/+8 and a reach of 10 feet as a Large Dire Ape, which you can follow with a bite at +7 AB on a full attack for 1d8+3 damage. Or you forego the quarterstaff and use the Dire Ape's two claws (AB of +12, 1d6+6 damage each), since if you hit with both you get to rend the target for an additional 2d6+9 damage.

The Dire Ape also gets to wear any equipment a humanoid can, so you get to keep all your toys. (If you look closely, I put the Periapt of Wisdom in the Head slot so I could have an Amulet of Health as well. Not strictly RAW, but it seems like a logical alternate slot. The +2 to Wisdom isn't critical for this, in any case.)

Other wildshape options include turning into a giant bear and grappling something to death, turning into a lion and pouncing, turning into a wolf and tripping, becoming a bat and flying around the battlefield casting spells, etc.

You also get spells for buffing, healing, and battlefield control, along with an animal companion who can be quite viscous if you choose him right.

Ever see 1d3 Dire Badgers pop into existence with +4 to Str and Con right off the bat and then fly into a Rage ala the barbarian? It's not a pretty sight.

Now compare what you can do with the abilities of, say, a monk.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

I remember my Druid....twas an epic character (29th level) before we finally retired him...being able to just conjure a hurricane isnt as fun as ALMOST dying in the tomb of horrors

good times

druids are balanced, like all classes really, thats what makes a class great, but all are victums of circumstance

the druid is great in wilderness adventures, better than rangers actually, and the animal companion is a place that can be exploited...take a wolf
then name your wolf, make him cool, name him spot and be what PETA has nightmares about (animal violence? I had my animal companion in a fight with a hobgoblin's krenshar during one adventure, why are goblinoids so greedy?) and at higher levels, the power of nature is in your grasp, get the spell conpendium and let loose with spells, also, they arent the best healers, but being able to conjure animals until the san diego zoo looks like a petting zoo compared to your battlefield is awsome...so what? its not like this lich can kill ALL my bears before they lay waste to his army of undead, whats this? his army is gone and I still have 4 bears? MWHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

and if you DM often, remember, forests are creepy places, especially when they try to entagle you and animals come from nowhere, evil druids can make fierce villians

and call lightening...yeah, reason enough to fear them TASTE MY LIGHTENING F(irefight)ERS!

 

[Nifft]

At face value, the Druid seems relatively weak though well rounded. For combat it has low AC and limited fighting capability. For spells, it seems to have few daily spells available, and a limited and relatively weak selection. While wildshape could be potentially powerful it doesn't seem to stack up to other classes (perhaps the wildshape feats kick ass?). I will admit that most players don't realize how good pounce can be. These are why I think I haven't seen many people even want to be druids. The ones who have played them did so for flavor and then thought them weak.

Here's how you break a Druid:

1/ Feats. Take the feats Scribe Scroll (perhaps at 1st level) and Natural Spell (always at 6th level).

2/ Animals. Read through the stats for all Animals in all available monster books and memorize the best ones of each type. Know which ones get specific bonus feats for free. Pre-calculate what your stats will be in each of several different animal forms (since your Str/Dex/Con change, so do your skills, and since you get their bonus feats for the duration of your Wild Shape).

Step 2 is hard. Many players don't take the time necessary to fully know -- and therefore to fully exploit -- the power in the hands of a Druid.

There is also a step 3 ("Read through your spell list and figure out which spells should be on scrolls, vs. which ones you will probably need at full caster level."), but step 2 is usually enough to make the lazy munchkin just play a Cleric.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Summer-Knight925]

everyone loves the cleric tho

turning undead and getting domains is just "all the fun" right?


maybe im just wierd for wanting to turn into a bear, tear the giant in half then call a thunderstorm that decimates the rest of the giant army...maybe thats just me

but they arent good replacements for cleric, you need a cleric (or favored soul)
theyre the..offensive divine casters, if that makes sense, more magic for fighting and boosting than for healing

 

[radmod]

Dandu, in regards to Andal Durrak:
What am I missing here (it's bugging me)? Shouldn't his attack with the qstaff be 3d6+8 one handed, or 3d6+11 two-handed?

I can see the advantage of the character if I were to say to you "create an ECL 8 Druid" but I confess that the character seems somewhat weak at low levels (an animal companion can only do so much). This is probably why I don't see many druids. The druids I did didn't survive the early levels (one died, two retired - I forgot another druid). The only one I've seen even at 8 (under 3.5) is one I didn't count: a current druid who is only there for socialization (I didn't know until today that she didn't even have feats selected! She was killed in four/five rounds by a winter wolf.)

I see that the change from polymorph to alternate form (I had forgotten about this) makes a huge, huge difference, IMO.

And really, you're going to compare it to a monk? Haven't I heard you say monks were weak?