Why is Eberron being pushed so hard?

[MadMaxim]

Well, coincidentally I have just gotten my copy of Eberron... my initial opinion is not exactly glowing.

Its a lot of what I worried about. First of all, the setting seems to suffer from identity crisis. Is it "medieval"? Is it "swashbuckling"? is it "pulp action"? Is it "steampunk"?

One of the things I had hoped about Eberron is that it would positively differ from FR by showing how you CANNOT have a "medieval" culture when you have magic so powerful that it mimics industrial technology. Unfortunately, Eberron doesn't do this at all. Sure, we get flying cities and mobile cities, and magickal trains, etc. etc. but the author goes out of his way to say its still a "Medieval" setting. IT CAN'T BE. As soon as you transform a medieval society that much it would not be medieval anymore. Why didn't they have the guts to make it a kind of medieval-esque industrialized society, an enlightenment, or at least a renaissance? Oh wait, right, because "medieval" sells better than any of those things... part of the "trying to be all things to all people" syndrome.

Regarding contents: god damn, it really IS RIFTS. It literally says its got everything in it. I'm surprised there are no Jedi (yet).

On a plus note, I'm pleased to note that the Warforged are NOT as horrifically overpowered as I thought they would be. As it turns out they aren't the "dragon hatchlings" of the Eberron world, just the "Glitter boys".

Oh, and it has psionics. I hate psionics. Also, how stupid is that? Taking the new "flagship" setting for D&D and basically forcing anyone who wants to play in it to have to get the psionics handbook? way to be accessible.

Now, another plus side, I do like what they do with Clerics. Or rather, what they do with deities.

Action points: like force points, but more complicated and less relevant to the setting. Hoo-ray.

Is it just me, or does the dragon-marked stuff and the names of the feats seem like blatant rip-offs of Exalted? That's not a good thing, btw, its enough for me to be totally turned off the setting right there. I don't think its a winning strategy in general, though: if a gamer wanted to be an Exalted fan, he'd play Exalted, and if he already is an Exalted fan, he'll play Exalted. Running around imitating Exalted is only going to turn off the people who don't like exalted, and not win many fans from the ones who ALREADY have exalted.

The prestige classes are broken, but then, ALL prestige classes are broken and have been for a very very long time in D&D. They went from being about reflecting specific cultural groups and specialized paths, to being "ADVANCED EXTRA POWERFUL classes" quicker than a gamer can down a mountain dew. They're part of the overall power creep that is infesting D&D 3rd, that will eventually render the game unplayable, and that Eberron seems to embrace with all the joy of a suicidally depressed guy embracing an oncoming freight train (or should that be magic train?).

Oh, and the "RIFTS Dragon hatchling" of Eberron? The Warforged Juggernaut. I knew my initial hopefulness had to have a catch.
Great. So you don't get to start as a powergamers wet dream, you have to wait till at least level 5 to get there.

And if Warforged Juggernauts are the "dragon hatchlings" of Eberron, I guess Weretouched Masters are the Dog Boys?

The stuff on the Planes of Eberron are ok, but I have to wonder why they couldn't have just used the Manual of the Planes instead, and added more material on some other topic? its also unfortunate that while you need the Psionics book to fully play Eberron you specifically can't use the Manual of the Planes, a sourcebook I actually like. How dumb is that? And yeah, I know they say its optional, but its right there all over the book, and hell there's an entire CONTINENT ("Riedra") that you pretty much need psionics for.

The actual world (ie the geography) is ok, but adds to the setting confusions in some way.. you have nations like Breland, its a monarchic parliamentary democracy, with a capital full of SKYSCRAPERS, a "lightning rail train", and a giant mobile town-fortress, but its "Medieval".
Yeah.
Ok.
And this isn't some wierd far-off place that you might find in the distant corner of the FR. No, its the place the book TELLS YOU TO START YOUR GAME. Ie. the most normal place available.

The more I read it the more I think Eberron would have been a great sourcebook, for D20 MODERN. To make it "medieval" requires such a level of suspension of disbelief that your spleen would explode in the mere attempt.

Another plus side: the "dms tips" section is mercifully short, though in no way inspiring.

You'll note in this review I've skipped the standard "crunchy" spells, items, and monsters (as if using every monster ever made in any WoTC book ever wasn't enough) sections.

In concluding, I would have to say I'm surprised that the writers of Eberron don't appear to thank their chief influence, Kevin Siembieda, anywhere. I also have to say that Eberron to me shows very clearly what the weaknesses of a "pre-fab" setting are.. in other words, when you let a group of marketing professionals vet the setting to figure out exactly how to make it as profitable, demographic-satisfiable, spin-offable, happy-meal-toyable, as possible. Eberron screams "pre-fab" in a bad way. Not even in the Monkees yea-they're-fake-but-they're-still-likeable way, no.. we're talking "New Kids On the Block" bad here.
I'm a firm believer in giving the playing public what it wants, in populism in other words, but I don't think that translates into creating a setting meant to offer every possible aspect of D&D in one horrifying pastiche of broken unbelievability.

My initial concern with Eberron was that it was going to try to be "wierd for wierd's sake", one of those settings that tries so hard to not be bog-standard medieval fantasy that it ruptures something and becomes too wierd to live. Instead, the result is something even worse: a setting that has clearly ruptured something, is clearly too wierd to live, and is freakily trying to insist that its perfectly normal medieval fantasy at the same time. Like the guy with the gaping chest wound with tentacles sticking out of it insisting to you that "no he's perfectly fine, just a normal guy". What's more, he then goes on to try to insist to you that not only is he still "normal", but that having arms and tentacles and a gaping chest wound all at once is somehow a great thing.

May the gaming gods have mercy on our souls.

Nisarg

I have the feeling that you're blowing this subject completely out of proportion. Just because the setting doesn't work for you, it's suddenly a piece of radioactive waste that NOBODY in their right mind should ever touch with a 10-foot pole... Are you against mixing stuff, or what is it?

 

[Kranton Zo`erth]

That's, uh, Very Important Person, right?

No, you're not.

BTW, CSG is Constructible Strategy Game. WizKids is leading the way with the Pirates of the Spanish Main, a ship battle game.

Well, that sounds infinitely more interesting than just the letters......I had never heard of it...appreciate the info...now I can read on it.

Oh....never worried about beind VIP....just trying to make a point....even if it seemed a little on the petty side.

I know....maybe a shorthand manual posted in the rules so people can keep track of all the abbreviating....

 

[Jakar]

Does anyone know, other than the fan made one, if WotC has produced a decent sized map of the setting yet?

I found it strange there was not one in the book.

 

[MerricB]

Dungeon #113 has a poster map of Khorvaire. I picked it up at my FLGS a week ago.

Cheers!

 

[Jakar]

Cool. Will have to take a trip to the Brisvegas to have a look for it.

 

[Cheerful Coffin]

They should consider making White and Red Dr@gon magizine.

White for the fluffy.
Red for the crunchy.

I'm a crunchy myself.

 

[Nisarg]

Exactly.

The Dragonmarked Houses provide the meat and bones of the Khorvaire economical system. Each family has a "monopoly" over a specific aspect of buisness. Not all family members are dragonmarked, in fact only a few are. But that gives the family an edge, and molds the rest of the bloodline to follow the same line of work.

that doesn't create any specific opportunities for sophistication. It does (maybe) provide the chance for the "defend the family trade routes" type of rp.
Most likely, it just provides a convenient background excuse for power gamers ("i want ot have the "destroy city" dragonmark.. oh, that's the House Bumquist mark, ok sure I can be from the mercantile family in charge of snail farming.. but um.. i'm one of those irresponsible ones who would rather go around killing people and refuse to do ANY family work").

Its going to lead to the average level of sophistication you find in Exalted.. ie. blatant powergaming covered by a thin veneer of in-story justification.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

I have the feeling that you're blowing this subject completely out of proportion. Just because the setting doesn't work for you, it's suddenly a piece of radioactive waste that NOBODY in their right mind should ever touch with a 10-foot pole... Are you against mixing stuff, or what is it?

No, but I am saying its a train-wreck of an identity-crisis. It tries to be "everything" and it ends up doing nothing well, IMO.

However, you will note in a later post I have said that it might just be the perfect setting for a 14 year old new player. Someone who wants to just have fun and play in a world with lots of "kewl powerz" and doesn't really need consistency or believability. Note that this is NOT really an insult. The industry is in DESPERATE need of getting something that will appeal to that 14 year old, the way D&D basic once did, the way RIFTS once did. Getting a new generation of players in here.

Unfortunately, having now learned more about the upcoming new D&D Basic set, I think WoTC will be doing a crappy job with it too. Ah well...

Nisarg

 

[Henry]

However, you will note in a later post I have said that it might just be the perfect setting for a 14 year old new player...Note that this is NOT really an insult. The industry is in DESPERATE need of getting something that will appeal to that 14 year old, the way D&D basic once did, the way RIFTS once did. Getting a new generation of players in here.

I'm pleased to tell you it's appealing to the 33-year-olders, too.

 

[jasamcarl]

that doesn't create any specific opportunities for sophistication. It does (maybe) provide the chance for the "defend the family trade routes" type of rp.
Most likely, it just provides a convenient background excuse for power gamers ("i want ot have the "destroy city" dragonmark.. oh, that's the House Bumquist mark, ok sure I can be from the mercantile family in charge of snail farming.. but um.. i'm one of those irresponsible ones who would rather go around killing people and refuse to do ANY family work").

Its going to lead to the average level of sophistication you find in Exalted.. ie. blatant powergaming covered by a thin veneer of in-story justification.

Nisarg

Now you are just being stupid. Almost all fantasy and pulp sci-fi see their resolution through a show of heroic strength..if i were to reduce the entirey of LotR's background to insignificance and call out a single spell by Gandalf as proof of munchkinism, i would perfectly set within the bounds of your stupid argument. Oh, but you are one of those 'fantasy' fans who couldn't care less about actual fantasy; you would instead enjoy if the author had spend 300 pages justifying and extrapolating every background detail to the point where the reader's reaction of "How could this be?", the underlying instinct that fantasy is suppossed to evoke, is squashed into to ultimatly shaky 'rationality'. But I might have missed out on all that fantasy which features storekeepers going over the books..let me go reread some Homer, i'm sure it was there.

And even if we are talking reality, coercion is a driving force behind almost all social relations. But then, I would guses that your historical knowledge is actually quite limited and it is just a pretense to condemn everything you don't dig or even understand as munchkinism.

Or you are *gasp* a troll.

What you are essentialy saying though is that you bought a book full of fluff that you now condemn because it doesn't mind lock a group into using that ramming said fluff down players' throats..foolish.

I'm about to be called out on this, most likely, so if you would like to avoid a public thrashing, feel free to email me at:

jasamcarl@hotmail.com

Oh and have a nice day.