Why is Eberron being pushed so hard?

[Tolen Mar]

Only as soon as you have magical tech, a nihilistic post-war culture, "pulp action", lightning rails, and armies of juggernauts fighting armies of undead, the whole idea of "chivalry and knighthood" surviving in such an environment requires such a huge leap of faith that you are bound to break every bone in your body in the attempt.

Ok, so if a great war that involved all of the known kingdoms of the world just ended, if we have lighted hallways due to magi-tech, and a far-reaching fast method of travel...suddenly you cant have chivalry and knighthood?

Armies are Armies, BTW. Take a look at the bigger picture here. Saxon, Norman, Thayn, Zombie, Golem...an army is an army and has very little impact on whether its a midevil setting. In fact, over the years armies have gotten smaller all the time (I mean in a battlefield sense, a few hundred highly trained fighters in tanks and machine guns where thousands swarmed with swords), so mass armies of undead and warforged really don't figure in that argument.

So it isnt medevil if we have lights...so what if the king in question has the money to hire lamplighters? (Which incidentally is like Eberron. Only the wealthy can afford much of it.)

I can teleport myself and companions as a wizard across the country, but if I ride a train, its not midevil?

These leaps of faith aren't that big. They just take a little imagination. Play the game, have fun. If it isn't fun, find something else. I don't expect you to suddenly change your mind simply because I like the setting. But sometimes it does take a bit of willingness to stretch a little.

 

[Henry]

I think people may be getting unnecessarily hung up on the descriptor "medieval" in reference to Eberron. "Medieval" to a lot of people means "Feudal", in reference to Kings and Nobility and Church holding lots of power over the other sectors of society. But in Eberron, the Kings hold some power, but not the majority, and the merchants and the Houses seem to hold the rest of it. The nobility is scarcely mentioned in the setting; in many ways, the society is Victorian in strata, not feudal. Everyone vies for those noble titles, but they really mean little other than some prestige.

On the other hand, there is a near-INFINITE amount of open territory in Eberron; remember all those debates on the underpopulation? A feudal society could indeed still exist quite well, even with Victorian sensibilities and political organization; anyone with a strong swordarm (or wand-arm) and a dream can get dispensation from their king or queen and go carve out a piece of wilderness for themselves - it's not like an industrial society in that population growth is rampant and there are few virgin wildernesses - there are "huuuuge tracts of land" for the taking out there.

OTthirdH, land does not mean wealth in a merchant-driven and fund-driven society, which is where Eberron is thematically. The money to be made is in goods and services, not in raising crops.

 

[JoAT]

Only as soon as you have magical tech, a nihilistic post-war culture, "pulp action", lightning rails, and armies of juggernauts fighting armies of undead, the whole idea of "chivalry and knighthood" surviving in such an environment requires such a huge leap of faith that you are bound to break every bone in your body in the attempt.

I would have been much more satisfied if Keith Baker and the boys at the WoTC boards had said "ok.. right, Eberron is NOT medieval, it couldn't possibly be and make any sense, but we aren't likely to lose any customers by not using that word meaninglessly, and instead just make Eberron theindustrial post-war relativist transitional world it HAS TO BE without feeling the need to put the m-word in there".

Nisarg

Meh. We live in a setting with giant, treaded hunks of steel that blow things up, semi-demi-quasi-vamperic daydreamers, sticks that shoot dozens of projectiles at hundreds of miles per hour, winged, hollow shells which can take you across the globe in less than a day, and weapons that can level cities with the touch of a button. And yet, there are people who are utterly loyal and devoted to thier country, are kind to women and are responsable enough to govern vast... tracts of land. There are kings, and queens, and emporers, knighthoods and champions of the realm. I don't see what leap of faith you're saying we have to make.

 

[Belegbeth]

Meh. We live in a setting with ... semi-demi-quasi-vamperic daydreamers ...

We do? Or are you just referring to slackers here?

 

[JoAT]

We do? Or are you just referring to slackers here?

Just refering to those people who tend to act like vampires (according to the romantic/angsty vampire novels0< yet at the same time don't drink blood, don't have fangs can go out during the day-time, but only go out at night because it's cool (or else they think that they're alergic to natural light), ect, ect, ect. I could have said vampire wannabes, but that would have just been too obvious... Besides, it could also refer to slackers, if you want to take it that way (now that I think about it, alot of that would describe me, aside from acting like a romantic vampire...)

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I would have been much more satisfied if Keith Baker and the boys at the WoTC boards had said "ok.. right, Eberron is NOT medieval, it couldn't possibly be and make any sense, but we aren't likely to lose any customers by not using that word meaninglessly, and instead just make Eberron theindustrial post-war relativist transitional world it HAS TO BE without feeling the need to put the m-word in there".

So, your problem is with the marketing ???

Marketing = say whatever will get people to buy

This is a law of the universe, as far as I can tell. Getting mad at the marketing will change nothing and will only give you an ulcer, my friend.

That said, Henry's analysis of the sort of necessary feudalism of the setting is rather nice.

OTthirdH, land does not mean wealth in a merchant-driven and fund-driven society, which is where Eberron is thematically. The money to be made is in goods and services, not in raising crops.

But there is money to be made in raw materials. A mine within spitting distance of a lightning rail that is being laid or rebuilt is likely to become a rather profitable venture. And if you're setting up a community of miners, well, they have to eat something, so it's worthwhile to bring some farmers, as well.

Now that I think of it, unlike most D&D settings, Eberron actually has a sink for all that metal being mined in the ubiquitous mining towns. I mean, it seems that about 3/4 of the towns you come across in adventures or sourcebooks are based on a mine. You'd think people would be rolling in metal by now.

 

[BrooklynKnight]

This thread is starting to get disenheartening.

Can everyone calm down a tad? Eberron is a fantasy setting. It doesnt have to be beleivable. Everytime we roll a d20 we are playing suspension of disbelief. Its not fair to say you cant do such a thing with the fantasy elements of Eberron. Its a written work of art from the mind of its creator like any other.

I'm starting to get the impression that some people here dislike Eberron not because of its own faults but simply because its from WOTC. They dislike it because WOTC is trying to make money and they feel WOTC is trying to take advantage of them in some way.

I wish you'd all take a minute and relax. If anything WOTC is far better then the dying days of TSR. True, WOTC is a buisness and its overhead HASBRO wants to see money, but there is nothing wrong with building a campaign model that will bring in money.

Be it Marketing or the style of the campaign it doesnt matter. The tone of Eberron is set by Keith and the D&D Design team led by Bill Slavicsek. If you truly have a problem with how the setting is progressing then shoot off an email to custserv@wizards.com and ask it be forwarded to them so they know your opinion.

As for the medieval...

Any setting which features swords and sorcery, is going to be midieval. As far as D&D goes THATS what Midieval is. D&D will always be Swords and Magic, regardless of the setting. If you change that, despite what system you use, its not really D&D anymore. And I honestly belive that. Eberron doesnt change that. The heroes still wield swords, and still use Magic. How they travel and how the commoners live doesnt matter.

What amazes me is all the positive points people have overlooked.

Eberron solves the problem of wizards in their towers churning out magic items. There is no benefit for them to do this, its a drain on resources for too little reward. In Eberron we have Artificers and Magewrights who handle the majority of Magic Item Creation.

In Eberron we dont have 15 people in each city and town that are above 15th level. The ECS lists only 3 NPC's of near epic level in the entire setting. The Druid Tree (The Gatekeeper?), The Leader of the Silver Flame (who's only 18th level with in the confines of her church), and Vol the Half-Dragon Half Elf Lich who's in self imposed exile/hiding. Thats it! The majority of NPC's are actually NPC Classes and under 10th level. Most leaders of cities are no higher then 7th or 8th. If the PC's really wanted to take over a city or two, they could.

Unlike FR of AD&D2e, Eberron doesnt try to pidgeonhole everything from D&D into its pages. While Eberron WAS designed with "CORE" D&D in mind, it doesnt shove every product into it. The way its designed makes it easy for DM's to fit such things into their version of Eberron if they so please, but otherwise its pretty tame and well put together.

Why are people complaining so much about demographics and farming and mining and marketing tactics? Who CARES. Thats not what having fun is about.

Relax, go pickup your PHB and ECS, write up that Warforged Barbarian, Shifter Cleric, Changeling Rogue, Human Dragonmarked Artificer from House Cannith and Aundairish Wizard, and go have fun!

 

[Nisarg]

Relax, go pickup your PHB and ECS, write up that Warforged Barbarian, Shifter Cleric, Changeling Rogue, Human Dragonmarked Artificer from House Cannith and Aundairish Wizard, and go have fun!

Thank you, no. Why would i be playing in a world who's kitchen-sinkism and lack of believability pisses me off?

If you want me, I'll be playing Midnight. I imagine more than a few people on this list will be out there with me.

Nisarg

 

[buzz]

Regarding contents: god damn, it really IS RIFTS.

This is, by far, the second-silliest statement I've read in this thread.

The first is the original premise of the thread, i.e., "Why is a company interested in promoting a new product line?"

 

[buzz]

The sad thing is that TSR/WotC has NEVER done a classic fantasy setting.

I'm curious as to your definition of "classic fantasy", then.