Why is Polar Ray an 8th level spell?

[darthkilmor]

Title says it all, link for easy reference

 

[jaelis]

Because of the high damage cap.

Not saying it's a good reason, but I think that is the reason.

 

[Victim]

The high damage cap, and bad spell design.

 

[Enkhidu]

High damage cap + no reflex save = kills rogues dead.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Because of the high damage cap.

Not saying it's a good reason, but I think that is the reason.

It's exactly the reason, and it is a very good reason.

All the evocation spells work this way. (All spells, actually, work this way behind the scenes, but it's most evident with evocation.)

Spell Level: Single Target Cap(s) / AoE Cap(a)
0: 5(s)/0(a)
1: 5(s)/5(a)
2: 10(s)/5(a)
3: 10(s)/10(a)
4: 15(s)/10(a)
5: 15(s)/15(a)
6: 20(s)/15(a)
7: 20(s)/20(a)
8: 25(s)/20(a)
9: 25(s)/25(a)

EDIT: For the record, it has no save because it requires an attack roll (it's a ray).

There are very few spells that require both. It's generally either an attack roll, or it grants a save; if it requires both, it'll have something else wonky going on. Such spells are unusual.

 

[Victim]

It's exactly the reason, and it is a very good reason.

All the evocation spells work this way. (All spells, actually, work this way behind the scenes, but it's most evident with evocation.)

EDIT: For the record, it has no save because it requires an attack roll (it's a ray).

There are very few spells that require both. It's generally either an attack roll, or it grants a save; if it requires both, it'll have something else wonky going on. Such spells are unusual.

That's true to some extent. A spell with a higher damage cap generally must be higher level. However, I don't think that a higher damage cap is sufficient by itself for a higher level spell. Higher level damaging spells should also be getting some sort of secondary benefit with their higher level. To use core damaging spells, Delayed Blast Fireball has the delay feature AND a higher damage cap. Horrid Wilting improves on effective blast radius, is selective, and does untyped damage. Using SC, spells like Radiant Assault can apply Daze as a secondary effect. And there are the Orb spells. Polar Ray is just more damage - for an 8th level effect it should be attaching some ice/cold related debuff or something along with that maximum 25d6.

 

[Nifft]

In my game, it deals d10s. That's why it's still 8th level.

Otherwise... uh... no clue.

Cheers, -- N

 

[akbearfoot]

Because they needed to have a crappy 8th level spell to give high level NPC casters so they don't all waste your party with back to back horrid wiltings?

Otherwise it should probably be a 7th level spell IMO. Even then its not as good as DBF.


Great way to kill red dragons though...dumb red dragons anyways

 

[mvincent]

EDIT: For the record, it has no save because it requires an attack roll (it's a ray).

But at high levels a wizard can make the touch attack roll far more reliably than a target will fail a reflex save, adding to the effectiveness of the spell.

Example: unless you have an epic caster level (in which case you can do better than an 8th level spell anyway) the ray will do the same damage as say, Chain Lightning... unless the opponent makes his reflex save, which they tend to do. I see skipping their saving throw (in favor of a ranged touch attack) to be a big advantage at higher levels. Without that, I can't see the spell being worthwhile.

 

[darthkilmor]

It's exactly the reason, and it is a very good reason.

All the evocation spells work this way. (All spells, actually, work this way behind the scenes, but it's most evident with evocation.)

Spell Level: Single Target Cap(s) / AoE Cap(a)
0: 5(s)/0(a)
1: 5(s)/5(a)
2: 10(s)/5(a)
3: 10(s)/10(a)
4: 15(s)/10(a)
5: 15(s)/15(a)
6: 20(s)/15(a)
7: 20(s)/20(a)
8: 25(s)/20(a)
9: 25(s)/25(a)

EDIT: For the record, it has no save because it requires an attack roll (it's a ray).

There are very few spells that require both. It's generally either an attack roll, or it grants a save; if it requires both, it'll have something else wonky going on. Such spells are unusual.

Whats the point of these damage caps really, just to make low level spells unviable at high level?