D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

[Remathilis]

Do they? Are you sure?

Or is it just a vocal minority?

Enough of them had a sad about sorcerers not having an inferior spell list to wizards that WotC tossed the whole three spell list idea in the garbage. Imagine the uproar that would happen if their spell power was nerfed significantly.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

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I was thinking about John "Anibal" Smith (from that famous 80's teleserie) as an example of warlord-like character.

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The videogame Overwatch can show several examples of supporter heroes but without a true leader role in the plot part.

A true warlord couldn't be a simple "I order and you obey". That doesn't work like this. In the real life in a batlefield a "toxic boss" could "suffer an accident". The "leader" should worry about money and supplies.

Maybe in the next years Avalon Hill will dare to publish a skirmish miniature game style Mordheim, and later a videogame adaptation within D&D-B VTT.

If WotC dreams with a 5e version of Miniature handbook, or a D&D miniature game, then the future warlord will be reserverd for then.

In D&D battlefield soldiers can't stop to drink a healing potion in the middle of the fight, but.... a warlord could use a magic banner with some healing aura for allies. but this only would work for the worst injuries. This could explain the reason because the warlord could use magic healing even not being a true spellcaster.

Now I am thinking about a combo of warlord + warmage classes. This warmage wouldn't be only a sorcerer with light armour, but more like the warlord's magical squirel, loading magic banner or using languange spell to talk with other people. This warmage would use a different spellcasting, the "arcane techniques", like the martial maneuvers from Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords, like at-will powers but needing a Concentration check before reloading, and with ranged effect. Most of times the magic would be used to reload magitek crossbows.

 

[Yaarel]

Inspiring Word​

As a bonus action, you can call out to a wounded ally and offer inspiring words of courage and determination that helps that ally heal. A creature within 30 feet of you can spend a Ht Die. The player rolls the die twice and adds the your Charisma modifier to it. The character regains hit points equal to the total (minimum of 0).

At 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level, the character rolls the die an additional time.

I would avoid the term "wound" when referring to nonphysical hit point restoration. Also I want the at-will maneuver to continue being good at higher tiers. Here half the Hit Dice is roughly 25% of the Hit Points. Thus it is roughly 25% at any level except 1 where one Hit Dice is 50%. I need to think about balance and budget, but 25% seems like something that should be both intentionally powerful and standard. Note, the target pays the cost by spending Hit Dice early, which can leave a future Short Rest without Hit Dice, so there needs to be thoughts about logistics and temptation, and encounters after each rest.

In any case, something like:



INSPIRING WORD

Your words inspire courage, determination and focus. As a bonus action, choose a creature within 30 feet that can see or hear you, whose Hit Points are less than maximum but more than zero. It can spend a Hit Die in addition to your Mental Ability (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma) to restore its Hit Points.

At higher levels. At higher levels, the creature can spend upto half its total Hit Dice, adding your Mental Ability each time.

 

[Yaarel]

My perfect vision would be that the fighter and rogue are redone to have the same supernatural possibilities as monks or blood hunters. The magic is baked into the base class. You are capable of supernatural stuff from low level. Your subclass could define the type of power you have (arcane, rune, psionics, primal, shadow). The idea of a pure "mundane" fighter or rogue is gone, but in its place are classes that can keep pace with what wizards and other casters can do. A rogue who can go invisible or teleport in shadows. A fighter that can fly/jump great leaps and wrestle with dragons. Not spells or spellcasting, but supernatural class features baked in the base class, and can grow with the remaining 16 levels of the base class rather than introducing them at odd intervals.

If baking the magic into the class concepts of Fighter and Rogue, then they should probably use "ki", same as a Monk. In other words the "soul aura" around that emanates from ones body, the lifeforce. (Note, this ki is exactly what vampires eat.)

Fighter and Rogue could be "Psionic" − utilizing the soul and in 4e the Monk is Psionic for this reason.

On the other hand, it seems like Martial, Psionic, and Primal can probably merge into a single "Primal" power source that relates to the soul.

I realize that no longer leaves a purely mundane class who starts mundane and stays mundane. It's a sacrifice I'm personally willing to make to get martial classes the necessary oomph to not get left behind.

The strictly reallife nonmagical warrior defacto is and officially should be an 8-levels prestige class.

 

[Undrave]

If not magic were allowed to replicate real-world athletes, the game would simply run out of map, and there'd be little left to distinguish magic.

What? That makes no sense? Magic can do stuff real world athletes can't but a lot of the time a DnD mundane character can't do what athletes do! I think using world records as a benchmark is a perfect way to design a high level non-magical but still extraordinary character. If your level 20 Fighter can't break real world records, they're not extraordinary enough.

Nope. I absolutely will not accept this. Period, full stop. There should be non-easy-mode non-magic, and easy mode magic. This is a perfectly achievable thing.

Yes!

Did anyone ever actually play a Warlord as a "party leader" or say "I'm the Warlord, you have to obey me!"?

I mean, Clerics and Bards were specifically called Leaders as well, yet that didn't turn them into tin-plated dictators, did it?

I'm pretty sure this was a straw man complaint in 4e.

No but it weighs you down, meaning you can carry less and it costs money (or alternatively you can sell it for money.

Please, nobody cares about the weight of an armor and by level 3 nobody cares about mundane gear costs.

Then no Warlord is needed because there should be no force multipliers in a team based RPG. Such needs are strictly power fantasys.

What? It's precisely because it's a TEAM GAME of course there should be force multipliers! That's what teamwork is FOR! Why are you a team if you don't make each other better? How is "make my allies better" a power fantasy? It's like the opposite of a power fantasy!

Neither Bless nor Inspiration Dice are force multipliers???

Yes they are. What do you think a force multiplier is?

Enough of them had a sad about sorcerers not having an inferior spell list to wizards that WotC tossed the whole three spell list idea in the garbage. Imagine the uproar that would happen if their spell power was nerfed significantly.

Wizard fans are the worst.

 

[Yaarel]

What? That makes no sense? Magic can do stuff real world athletes can't but a lot of the time a DnD mundane character can't do what athletes do! I think using world records as a benchmark is a perfect way to design a high level non-magical but still extraordinary character. If your level 20 Fighter can't break real world records, they're not extraordinary enough.

When doing calculations, I posit the absolute maximum of reallife human potential to be: 4 Proficiency + 4 Ability.

As a corollary, there is no such thing as a realistic D&D Human beyond the Master tier (levels 9 thru 12).

An other corollary is, +5 Ability is strictly superhuman. A +5 Strength or Charisma, or whichever, is how to convey the flavor of superhuman for a low tier character. Even "ogre strength" is only +4. A +5 represents something truly beyond Human capacity.


Most reallife humans are level 0 background, while those with competence in an area are levels 1 thru 4. Even the levels 5 thru 8 are top percentiles, and vanishingly rare. The levels 9 thru 12 are extremely exceptional outliers.

 

[Cadence]

What? That makes no sense? Magic can do stuff real world athletes can't but a lot of the time a DnD mundane character can't do what athletes do! I think using world records as a benchmark is a perfect way to design a high level non-magical but still extraordinary character. If your level 20 Fighter can't break real world records, they're not extraordinary enough.

I'm pretty sure they can break lots of records for doing things while carrying lots of weight anyway! (Unless I misremember the encumbrance rules and how much one can carry before it affects them swimming, jumping, or climbing

But seriously. Something that lined up ability scores and real world world records and some fictional characters (Batman? James Bond? Whatever) would be a cool resource.

 

[CreamCloud0]

If baking the magic into the class concepts of Fighter and Rogue, then they should probably use "ki", same as a Monk. In other words the "soul aura" around that emanates from ones body, the lifeforce. (Note, this ki is exactly what vampires eat.)

Fighter and Rogue could be "Psionic" − utilizing the soul and in 4e the Monk is Psionic for this reason.

On the other hand, it seems like Martial, Psionic, and Primal can probably merge into a single "Primal" power source that relates to the soul.

fighters and rogues using Ki i would definitely accept, plus it can be utilised in subtle and passive ways but psionics? no way that stuff is way too high-key and psychic powers-y to be put in their baseclasses and maintain the themes i'd want from them,

 

[Cain_the_Deceiver]

The crab pot fallacy

If a crab tries to climb out of a crab pot, the other crabs will pull them back down, preventing them from escaping, and dooming them all to death.

We can't have better martial classes cuz that would make the other martial classes look worse and we can't be arsed to buff them too.

 

[Cadence]

fighters and rogues using Ki i would definitely accept, plus it can be utilised in subtle and passive ways [snip]

I've been pondering a united ki-grit-luck-rage-chutzpah-whatnot pool....