Why Shouldn't Martial Characters have powers?

[Nifft]

I don't think that "once in a lifetime" abilities are the sort of "kewl powerz" that people are worried about in 4e, though. Do you?

He had very few fights compared to a D&D character. His "once in a lifetime" works out to what, 20% of all his battles?

Yeah. 1/5 of all fights means once in a day for a D&D dude.

Scale, mang.

Cheers, -- N

 

[BBQ]

I think fighter powers and such will be much like the strong, fast, and tough hero talents from d20 Modern. Those talents include abilities to ignore hardness (or at least, parts of hardness...), extreme endurance feats, melee "smash" powers, speed increases, dodging bonuses, defensive rolls, damage reduction, elemental resistances, stamina bonuses, extra hitpoints, the ability to remain conscious after getting very badly hurt, and one of my favorites: second wind (which heals the character a fairly decent amount of damage).
Put those into a fighter, and I think you can still see the medieval Conan-Arthur-Drizzt-Aragorn-Beowulf feel.

Dragon-Tail-Cut/Wallop, as it was described, sounded logical enough. You hit the person hard enough, it knocks them down (that's what I gathered from it). It's not hyper-magical power, but it's cool and makes realistic sense.

I am not a fan of anime. There are few that I actually like, and I do think that D&D should make the effort to avoid a large amount of anime-style powers. However, I will admit that anime does have it's place in fantasy fiction, and should be allowed to have a voice in D&D. I think that the anime stuff should be reserved for classes like the swordmage, however, and should stay semi-seperated from regular D&D. As much as I loathe World of Warcraft for the effect it's having on fantasy fiction, I would rather see elements from WoW in my D&D campaign than elements of Inuyasha or Ninja Scroll.

 

[Simplicity]

I'm fine with fighters having interesting abilities. I'm not okay with fighters spouting magical effects as part of the normal career path. There should be a place in D&D for the non-magical grunt. Sure, they can be of mythic proportions, but they should not be shooting fireballs from their swords. Good examples are Hercules or Beowulf. Sure, they're silly strong, so strong it's not "realistic". That's the point. They're paragons of training. They represent an unachievable perfection to which a normal person can strive.

 

[Mallus]

There should be a place in D&D for the non-magical grunt.

And that place is called '1st level'...

 

[Counterspin]

You've either got to scale fighters up from what they can do in the real world, or scale wizards and their ilk down from what they can do in fantasy, or some combination thereof in order to maintain balance in combat. I'd rather keep the flashy important magic and give up some of the realism for fighters.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'm excited about 4e based on the whole "shiny new possibilities" idea, but if fighters can leap 50 feet and float through the air like some @*()$%*@*(& wuxia warrior, then I too shall retire from "new" D&D and focus on running 3.5 until my dying day.

20th level fighter
Strength 32 (16 base, +6 item, +5 from levels, +5 inherent)
23 ranks in Jump
Skill Focus (Jump)
Jump +37

He can leap 50 feet on a roll of 13 or better.

 

[Exen Trik]

I don't see the big deal here, martial powers look to be essentially what certain feats were. Don't let the name 'powers' make you think it has to be magical, mystical, or somehow videogamey.

 

[WhatGravitas]

20th level fighter
Strength 32 (16 base, +6 item, +5 from levels, +5 inherent)
23 ranks in Jump
Skill Focus (Jump)
Jump +37

He can leap 50 feet on a roll of 13 or better.

You've forgotten boots of springing and striding for 5,500 gp -> +5 competence on jump checks. And, for even more ludicrous stuff, add a potion of jump, CL 9 for 450 gp -> +30 enhancement on jump
_________________
= +72 on jump => can leap 73 ft. on a roll of 1 or better. And don't even think of adding a bard to the mix. Or one of the +2/+2 feats. And synergy bonuses with Tumble. And that's just core. Even from standing, he can leap quite a distance.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Henry]

And that place is called '1st level'...

Not anymore, it won't. Leastways, if all the hype is true and it's as similar to SWSE as is said.

 

[Mercule]

Gary Gygax recently said that none of his players was all that high level in his own campaign though, spanning 10 years of continuous play. I imagine that his game, as a result, was more pulp-action than Wuxia.

As were my 1E games. Even during my Monte Haul days, 10th level was pretty darn significant.

Generally, a year of play would net you about 5 levels. Most of my campaigns lasted about a year. There were a couple of "sequels" that added another year and a few levels on. Most of the world-shaking action happened at 7-10th levels. The only 1E PC in my game to make it above 12th or so level ascended to sainthood, then godhood.

That said, I don't mind spreading out the numbers to make 29 opportunities to level up. I don't even mind running/playing in games that are at the saint/epic or godly levels. Actually, I might even embrace that, with the understanding that 21+ level characters have transcended mortality (or, at least, humanity). Having "normal" personages at those levels is a different matter, entirely. So, if you draw that line, I'm fine with the fighters manifesting supernatural fighting abilities -- they get to do it because they've picked up the "outsider" type or are multiclassed fighter/demi-deity.

I don't know why I'm fine with that distinction. I just don't see swinging a sword to be a magical act, even if it's swung ludicrously well. And I don't want the flaming weapon, stadium-sized long jumps, or carrying of planets to be just an extension of the fighter's skill. That breaks my suspension of disbelief and my mind immediately attributes it to wizardry unless another reasonable explanation is given. I can buy into transcendence/tranfiguration, though. Again, don't ask why -- I don't know.