Why the assumption that epic levels are purely optional?

[Shade]

Why do so many people seem to think that epic levels are optional rules not implied by the core rules as written?

It clearly states on page 207 of the 3.5 Dungeon Masters Guide:

"Regardless of the method used to attain 21st level, once a character reaches that point he or she is considered an epic character."

It then goes on to present the rules for epic characters.

The words "option" or "variant" do not appear.

Contrast that to prestige classes, which have the disclaimer:

"Prestige classes are purely optional and always under the purview of the DM."

Now, I'm not debating that a DM doesn't have the right to stop a campaign at any level he wishes, but I'd like to know where people get the idea that the core rules somehow don't support play past 20th level.

This spang from the debate regarding the archfiends being reduced to CRs that allow them to be defeated by 20th-level characters and the continuing treatment of epic level play as the redheaded stepchild of D&D.

 

[Psion]

The words "option" or "variant" do not appear.

You obviously assign this fact a lot more relevance than I do.

All rules are optional. But I do feel that if it was meant to be in the core set of character rules, it would have been in the PHB.

And finally, I think that as a set of rules, it's passable but not as solid as the base rules. In short, I do view them as "some assembly required."

 

[Shade]

And you are definitely entitled to your opinion of their quality, and are definitely the final arbiter of whether you wish to use them in your campaign, but can you prove to me that they are any less relevant to the game than the other rules presented in the DMG?

 

[Odhanan]

Seems to me there's an "historical" reason. The epic rules in the ELH were apart of the core in 3.0, while the Prestige Classes were already included. That's where the assumption comes from, IMO.

 

[Shade]

Seems to me there's an "historical" reason. The epic rules in the ELH were apart of the core in 3.0, while the Prestige Classes were already included. That's where the assumption comes from, IMO.

You are probably right about that.

 

[hexgrid]

One big indication that "core" D&D doesn't support epic play is that demon princes are officially stated with CRs in the low twenties.

 

[GuardianLurker]

One more point to "core" - without the ELH, how will you stat the 28th level commoners and 24th level experts (DMG 3.5, pg. 139)?

 

[Mouseferatu]

The PHB indicates a level limit of 20. All of the DMG but for a spread of roughly 5 pages abides by this restriction. That's sufficient to infer that the rules are meant as optional, and aren't expected to see a lot of use.

 

[hexgrid]

And CR 20 is also (for the most part) where the Monster Manual ends.

 

[Shade]

The PHB indicates a level limit of 20. All of the DMG but for a spread of roughly 5 pages abides by this restriction. That's sufficient to infer that the rules are meant as optional, and aren't expected to see a lot of use.

True it goes to 20, but it never states that 20th is the end. Aren't all three of the core books considered required for the game to be played? If so, the epic rules are always there.

The reason I'm pursuing this is because the epic level rules seem to be vanishing into the ether, yet the designers must have thought they were essential to consider adding them to the 3.5 DMG, at the expense of things such as 0-level multiclassing, for example. They often get lumped in with psionics as an "option", yet psionics don't get a few pages in a core book.