Why Worship Gods?

[Alzrius]

Okay, I do understand the advantages of having a Church, but under the circumstances 3.X rules set up, why does one need a god to have a church? Liturgy could as easily be philosophical and theosophical, right? If the powers stay the same, then what difference does it make to the people making up the church?

There could be several reasons why gods have churches, as opposed to non-god-worshipping divine spellcasters.

The first one could be that the gods don't want there to be secular churches. If it poaches their faithful ("hey, join our order. It has no gods to kowtow to!") then even a good deity would want their worshippers to tear it down.

This is getting more abstract, but a god can also do things for their worshippers. This doesn't have a mechanic, but divine favor can play a role that isn't filled by clerics who have no higher authority (including but not limited to knowing where their souls go when they die).

Finally, the idea of a church can also extend into the Outer Planes. That is, your god has a home realm, which is populated with servitor creatures that would be friendly to you (e.g. angels, proxies, and such).

Ultimately, there's more to answer this question than mechanics.

 

[Raven Crowking]

You're conflating two questions:
1) why do clerics worship deities, and
2) why does ANYONE worship deities.

Sure, but the link between the questions seems reasonably obvious.

Since you hinge it on benefits, it sounds as if you are primarily talking about mechanics. Obviously, WotC has made the default mechanics very permissive. But really, as it stands, that says little about what lies beyond the mechanics. You may not worship any personified deity but a principle, but you are still being given power by following a religious principle of some sort.

As for my game world specifically, it is NOT good enough to just follow "good" or "strength". Though you may be empowered by a deity personifying such characteristics, but that deity has the power to rescind their power.

Same here.

I'm not sure that the benefits have to be entirely mechanical, but if worship is going to affect the PCs then there probably has to be some level of mechanics involved. I could quite easily imagine a world where the benefits of religion are purely social, but that doesn't fit in with the general concept of a D&D "Gods are real and must be taken into account" mentality.

As for anyone worshipping deities, that's a cosmology question. I adopt an attitude for PS that the divinity is sort of a divine beacon that your soul homes in on in the afterlife. Further, it gives you a principle that likewise guides it to that plane. If you don't follow a patron deity, you may get to the afterlife safely, or you may not. Do you feel lucky, punk?

Again, though, how often do afterlives actually come into the game? If a character is not guided home, does that mean that she cannot be raised? I.e., are we talking about just a generic "fear for what might happen because we don't know" or a specific "...And then Uncle Jerry was gone forever...not even the Temple of Miracles could bring him back!"?

 

[hexgrid]

Well, in the real world, people worship gods wether or not they receive any tangible, spell-like benefits.

Why would we expect people an a fantasy world to behave differently?

 

[Nail]

RC's question is a good one, and one I've also thought about, and incorporated into my campaign.

As I see it, you can use the mechanics of the system to puzzle out how the d20 multiuniverse actually works. Much like you can use the mechics of RL to puzzle out how the Real Universe works. It's kinda fun, actually.

Given the core rules, it's clear you don't need Gods to be granted divine magic. That's an interesting twist, I think.

 

[Raven Crowking]

There could be several reasons why gods have churches, as opposed to non-god-worshipping divine spellcasters.

The first one could be that the gods don't want there to be secular churches. If it poaches their faithful ("hey, join our order. It has no gods to kowtow to!") then even a good deity would want their worshippers to tear it down.

Doesn't this require gods to have worshipers first?

Or does a giant foot appear a la Monte Python and stomp the new, non-kowtowing church into the ground?

If the gods cause non-deity church to suffer "accidents" (i.e., they run a protection racket), then that is a pretty specific reason why people worship gods!

This is getting more abstract, but a god can also do things for their worshippers. This doesn't have a mechanic, but divine favor can play a role that isn't filled by clerics who have no higher authority (including but not limited to knowing where their souls go when they die).

Finally, the idea of a church can also extend into the Outer Planes. That is, your god has a home realm, which is populated with servitor creatures that would be friendly to you (e.g. angels, proxies, and such).

Ultimately, there's more to answer this question than mechanics.

I agree that there is more to the question than mechanics, but I doubt that a satisfactory answer has no mechanics attached to it. Certainly, 3.X is designed to make players more aware of mechanics, and to make their choices accordingly.

Does the question of where your soul goes when you die ever come up in your game? If so, does it have any game effect whatsoever?


RC

 

[Nail]

Well, in the real world, people worship gods wether or not they receive any tangible, spell-like benefits.

Why would we expect people an a fantasy world to behave differently?

Because the benefits in d20 are quite tangible!

 

[Psion]

Again, though, how often do afterlives actually come into the game?

Depends on the game, but typically seldom.

But is this a metagame setting or a setting question? For NPCs (and properly played PCs), that is the why.

Hopefully, for PCs, roleplaying is the why, and the reason becomes the same as the PCs.

For metagaming types, "because IMC, you must worship a bona fide power or you have no spells" is the why IMC.

If a character is not guided home, does that mean that she cannot be raised?

IMO, raising is not a question that typically enters an NPCs mind. If they go to a happy afterlife, they wouldn't want to be raised.

Raising is something that heroes who have a purpose remaining in the world do.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Well, in the real world, people worship gods wether or not they receive any tangible, spell-like benefits.

Why would we expect people an a fantasy world to behave differently?

In a fantasy world, gods are real beyond the shadow of doubt.

In the D&D 3.X (core) fantasy world, the gods are real, but have no control over how many of their benefits are dispersed.

In the real world, many people worship gods because they believe it is necessary to gain the god's aid, protection, and grace in the afterlife.

In 3.X, you can manifestly get a god's aid and protection without worshiping a god, and within the core rules worship doesn't change your afterlife experience one iota.

In the real world, people expect to experience the afterlife if they believe in it (either good or bad). In D&D, they roll up a new character.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

You're conflating two questions:
1) why do clerics worship deities,

Clerics are just a different kind of wizard, but the cleric schools/associations happen to all be owned by churches/religious organizations.

2) why does ANYONE worship deities.

Same reasons some of them do in RL.

 

[Psion]

In 3.X, you can manifestly get a god's aid and protection without worshiping a god, and within the core rules worship doesn't change your afterlife experience one iota.

If you define "doesn't change your afterlife experience one iota" as "doesn't say squat about it", yeah.