Why would a frost giant have a frost weapon?

[Gez]

I try to keep my game world a bit more realistic then that. The image of a permanent layer of ice on top of an active volcano just doesn't sit that well with me...

Your world is more realistic than Earth.

Congratulations.

The people of Iceland may took offense, though, that you just said they don't sit that well with you.

 

[BelXiror]

Why wouldn't giants in the same area get along?

Simple: Food.

Giants are big, and need lots of food. If there was a decent hunting plain nearby, and on one side is a glacier housing Frost giants, and the other a set of volcano's with Fire giants, they'll likely fight over who gets the food.

This can also explain why Fire and Frost giants are even nearby. Giants have a nice big con, so travelling a day or two isn't hard, and likely necessary too gather food. If the only place to get said food is shared by other giants, then they won't be happy. Some of the biggest animals to exist (Mammoths etc) exist in cold climates, and those big animals would be perfect prey for giants, Fire or Frost.

 

[green slime]

nm...

 

[Narfellus]

fire and frost giants

what a great thread. Some extremely good points have been brought up regarding climates, weather, monster temperment, ecology, religion, social status, religion, etc. I mean, what we have over the course of this thread could be made into a game product! (I can see it now: d20 Games presents: FIRE & ICE)

But really, i am a little surprised at how much, um, conflict has arisen over the first post. And as someone else put it, i don't think it's quite fair to call a designer "lazy" because a certain monster uses a certain ability. The stuff's all interchangeable anyway. And scaling the weapons based on the higher social status is a great idea.

 

[Presto2112]

I try to keep my game world a bit more realistic then that. The image of a permanent layer of ice on top of an active volcano just doesn't sit that well with me...

Iceland says 'hi'.

 

[Mystery Man]

You know I've started a few doozies in my stay here in ENWorld, but I must say this is the STUPIDEST, longest running, argument, debate, whatever the hell you want to call this train wreck....ever.

 

[Darmanicus]

Oh, I've nothing against flavor! What I don't like is flavor that I feel is defying logic and common sense.

Like D&D is based on logic and common sense! Am I missing something here?

 

[Presto2112]

Quite a bit has been said in regards to design, in particular, whether it is good design or poor design to give a Frost Giant a frost weapon. I'd like to respond to this question purly from a design viewpoint.

Firstly, and arguably most importantly, regular Frost Giants (MM, pg. 122) are NOT given any frost weapons, they are simply supplied with a Huge Greataxe.

Secondly, I have always been under the impression that the possesions of any given creature are suggested possesions and are, by no means, "carved in stone". Therefore, wouldn't it make sense that if, for whatever reason, the Frost Giants in your campaign would not carry such a weapon, you would simply supply them with another equal weapon of your choosing?

Thirdly, the only Frost Giants that are given a frost weapon are the Frost Giant Jarls (+2 Frost Greataxe). From a design point of view, giving a Frost Giant Jarl anything other than a frost weapon would prompt loads of questions. For instance, if you produced a Frost Giant Jarl that weilded a +2 Sonic Greataxe, imagine the feedback you would recieve: "why does the Frost Giant have a Sonic Greataxe? Is there some sort of section of thier culture that I am missing, what is the relavance?"

Fourthly, giving a Frost Giant Jarl a +2 Flaming Greataxe (which would benifit it when used against creatures in its own climate) would produce the same reaction as, say, giving a Fey a Cold Iron Longsword, or a demon a Good Aligned Mace (demons fight primarly with devils, don't they? Wouldn't this make a lot of sense?). Would it seem to you a good idea, from a design standpoint, to equip a demon with a Good Aligned Mace, or would that seem contradictory to the demon's nature?

Finally, check out the section "Frost Giant Characters" (MM, pg. 122). You'll note that Frost Giant clerics' suggested domains are: "chaos, distruction, evil, or war". There is no mention of the Cold Domain. This seems to lend to the idea that Frost Giants are not to be treated soley as cold-based casters. From a design standpoint, this seems to round the Frost Giant out fairly nicely to me.

I would say, with all of these points considered, that the designers of the Frost Giant did an excellent job. Most importantly to your point: don't like that +2 Frost Greataxe? Swap it out with something else. D&D and Wizards of the Coast seem far from "hard and fast" on these rules to me.

Hope this helps,

T from Three Haligonians

Very well thought out and researched post, Three Haligonians.

BTW, I live in Lower Sackville.

 

[Gez]

Finally, check out the section "Frost Giant Characters" (MM, pg. 122). You'll note that Frost Giant clerics' suggested domains are: "chaos, distruction, evil, or war". There is no mention of the Cold Domain.

Likewise, there is no mention of the Steam domain for the Steam Mephits. And no Spider domain for the Elf, Drow entry. What does that mean?

You'll notice with interest, then, that there is NO Cold domain in the core rules.

I can see the designers saying "hey, since they are frost giants, let's give their clerics the inexistant Cold domain, the gamers sure will appreciate it alot, they love when the rulebooks are self-contradictory or incomplete, it gives them something to talk about!"

 

[schporto]

Well I'm gonna throw a couple of cents into the fire too.

1. Frost Giants learn spells of type cold because they want to cover the entire world in cold. Yes it would make sense that the cold intelligent creature would learn some spells of fire just to be on the safe side, but that doesn't help him achieve his goals of coating the entire world in cold. (BTW you can substitute good, evil, lawful, chaotic, fire, etc for cold/frost above.)

2. In most human cultures carrying/selling/using human-harming poison is generally taboo. Necromancy is usually frowned upon as being the bane of life and a general not nice thing to do. Why? Well there's some reasons, but trying to ferret out why taboos exist is difficult anthropological work and out of my leaugue. In a similar way, I would think, the cold creature's society will frown on something that is of fire. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just might be part of the underground.

Also to me (and this is definately NOT in the rules) a fire outsider would suffer a negative level from wielding a cold weapon similar to a good creature wielding a unholy weapon. This wouldn't apply to giants and it is just a house rule for my game.

-cpd