Why would anyone become a lich?

cignus_pfaccari

First Post
Captain Howdy said:
The problem was: Let the lich do whatever he pleased with no fear of death, or destroy the lich and phylactery, releasing the Tarrasque.
That's a good idea if ever there was one. I think it was in an issue of Dragon, if I'm not mistaken...

That's easily dealt with in two separate methods.

1) If you're hunting the Tarrasque, you shouldn't have too hard a time taking its punk tail down. Ergo, powder the gem and smite the Tarrasque hip and thigh.

2) Imprison the lich. Anti-magic shell the monk or fighter, who grapples the lich and handcuffs him. Keep anti-magic shell around said lich, as you divest him of his goodies, including any spell component pouch. Keeping said shell up, dump him in a hole and fill it with concrete. Now you have a nice foundation for your brand-new church, with a lich with gauntlets that prevent him from using teleportation effects in the middle like the peanut butter in a Reese's cup.

Okay, so the latter is a bit of a problem, but your characters are epic, and should be up to the task.

Brad
 

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Captain Howdy

Explorer
cignus_pfaccari said:
That's easily dealt with in two separate methods.

1) If you're hunting the Tarrasque, you shouldn't have too hard a time taking its punk tail down. Ergo, powder the gem and smite the Tarrasque hip and thigh.

2) Imprison the lich. Anti-magic shell the monk or fighter, who grapples the lich and handcuffs him. Keep anti-magic shell around said lich, as you divest him of his goodies, including any spell component pouch. Keeping said shell up, dump him in a hole and fill it with concrete. Now you have a nice foundation for your brand-new church, with a lich with gauntlets that prevent him from using teleportation effects in the middle like the peanut butter in a Reese's cup.

Okay, so the latter is a bit of a problem, but your characters are epic, and should be up to the task.

Brad


Yes, they eventually did the first option. That second one's pretty cool though. That's actually a good idea for a site in a campaign setting... Consider the idea yoinked.
 

Psion

Adventurer
To expres my earlier answer in terms that might better get across what I am speaking of:

Why would anyone want to be a commoner when they could be a rogue?

Just because it's an option to the DM (to make opposition) or the players (in interests of letting them make a character they like) does not mean that all options are available and convenient to a character in the setting. Such means as becoming a shade or a lich might be long sought after and well guarded secrets.
 

sckeener

First Post
FR Shades not immortal

At least according to Races of Faerun, Shades are not immortal. Being a Shade increases your lifespan by 10, but you're not immortal.

The lifespan of a Shade (human) is
300 450 600 +6d% years

This is from Races of Faerun page 148.
 

Izer

First Post
What is with these /pathetic/ hiding places for phylacteries? If you are a lich you are automatically also a genius and a extremely accomplished wizard. You also have no need for air and a really extreme tolerance towards adverse conditions. Hide the damm thing in an airless chamber that can only accessed through teleport without error several miles down in bedrock. The bedrock of the moon of another, and preferably lifeless, planet mind you.! Keep the scrying barriers potent.
 

Werewolf_26

First Post
It has been stated several times now that one of the primary reasons to become a lich is that you can do it by yourself. That is extremely vital to keeping things secret, like the location of your phlyactery. And, as has been already been stated, magic jar or a specialized gentle repose, or illusion spells, can keep the lich in society for a very long time. And through those methods, those serving you (for promises of power, wealth, magical aid, or whatever) never need know that your actually a lich. That can keep pesky adventurer's from even starting a quest to find your phylactery in the first place, if you make certain to seed rumors and tales about the lich's long lifespan being tied to something else; like being favored by a goddess or god, the loved one of a powerful fey creature, trading dozens (or hundreds) of innocent souls to a demon for immortality. . . . the list could go on.


And as far as hiding places are concerned, the best place I've ever hidden one was not just a where, but also a what. One of my campaign villains researched unique spells, as all liches do, but the ones he researched were to prevent upstart heroes from destroying his phylactery. First, he made the phylactery in the shape of a heart, made of sapphire, and then, through his magic, replaced the heart of his daughter (who was only 16 years old and quiet innoncent/sheltered) with the phylactery. The spells he researched allowed her to continue living with the phylatery as her heart. So the first would be hero to attempt to slay him would have to deal with slaying an innocent girl. And to keep the girl innocent, the lich transported her to another plane, had her watched by carefully chosen gaurdians, and occasionally went back and reset her mind with magic. . . . on top of all of that, he used an additional magic to keep his daughter young, so he wouldn't have to worry about replacing the phylactery's host. Why didn't he use that magic on himself, to keep himself young? Well . . . the party never asked that . . . . so I never bothered to answer it.
 

Sejs

First Post
Lichdom is the perfect thing; it's doable alone (no outside or divine help)
I keep hearing in the back of my mind Sally Struthers saying "Do you want to be undead? Sure, we all do!"...

What it all really boils down to are two points.

-Primary Lich Advantage: Hey look, I can't die! Kill me all you like, I'll just come back. Any smart lich, and lets face it - all liches are smart, can hide their phylacrity in such a way that it can't be found if they don't get lazy about it. A lich is around for as long as they -want- to be.

-Primary Lich Disadvantage: Butterface. Yep, you look like ...er, well... you are a corpse. Corpses are ugly, creepy and make children upset. But hey, there's an up side! You were a Powerful Spellcaster even before you made the transition across the veil and found a vacant spot in the parking lot of immortality. Changing your appearance shouldn't really be all that challenging for you - you were able to give Death the finger and send him home crying; a makeover should be a walk in the park by comparison. Heck, just do a little contract work and buy yourself a Hat of Disguise. Bammo, problem solved.
 

As for a lich hiding his phylactery, the dumbest thing I've ever heard is the standard 3.0e MM's "wear it on your forehead" idea. You're a genius spellcaster with all the time in the world, a fortune, and untold knowledge both arcane and mundane, and you're wearing the secret of your eternal unlife that will make you immortal unless it's destroyed on your forehead?

Now, in 2e, I believe the rule was that if a Lich dies on another plane of existence than it's phylactery, it's dead forever, however I don't see mention of that in 3e.

If you're DM isn't using that old one as a holdover rule, then you could go and cast Genesis/Demiplane Seed/Appropriate Epic Spell and make your own demiplane to store your phylactery (Genesis may only be a cleric spell by the SRD, but creating your own demiplane by that spell or similar effect is a common wizard/arcane thing throughout D&D). Appropriate teleport shielding and anti-divination effects can should ward the entire demiplane off except for a single portal in-out (which goes into a hidden room in the cellar of a tavern you own (through fronts and minions) in a town near your lair). You then spend time with Wall of Iron and Wall of Stone building a devilishly complicated maze (which you know the only route through by heart), laden with powerful magical traps, Symbols of all types, permanent confusion effects, and at least one gateway that appears to lead to the phylactery (through illusion effects), but is actually a one-way portal to the Negative Energy Plane (a nice adventurer-disposal.) The phylactery itself is hidden in a hollowed-out stone in one wall in a dead-end part of the maze with a backup spellbook or two to regain your spells after reforming. Every decade or two, make additional decoy demiplanes that are nothing but death-traps to do-gooding adventurers who want to find your phylactery.

If your DM is requiring the Phylactery to stay on the same plane of existence as the Lich, then time for a geography lesson. Go to the arctic/antartic regions of your world, and find a mountain near a glacier or other major body of water (take advantage of your immunity to cold). Find a large boulder in that area, and with creative use of Stone Shape, hollow out a small room inside (and seal it off once it's created, so there is no sign of anything out of the ordinary later). Stock said room with Phylactery, spellbooks and other items you'll need when you repop. Appropriately ward against divinations, and if possible, against incoming teleportation without a proper key or password (those who try and teleport in without an appropriate token to allow passage find themselves shunted to the mouth of a volcano, or the depths of an oceanic trench or other bad place). Then, take this hideaway and plunge it into the deepest, coldest, darkest part of the arctic waters. You can't drown and you're immune to cold, so find an appropriate crevice, trench, or undersea cave to hide this boulder in. If neccesary, use Transmute Rock to Mud and on the surrounding rocks to seal it in, making it look like a natural part of the environment.
 

ares71

First Post
IIRC A lich was more powerful in 1st edition AD&D. You had to be an 18th level spellcaster minimum. I think it's only 11th level in 3.5. They were the ultimate in tough undead (well, the demi-lich).
 

Li Shenron

Legend
What if there is no other way in a setting to become immortal? I have never seen a shade for instance in our adventures. Not everything exists in every world...

DMH said:
And? I used 3rd party book much more than the SRD (I don't have the PH or DMH of either 3.X- I don't need them).

In that case why not looking forward to become a deity directly?
 

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