Wild Armor and armor check penalty

[GodPhoenix]

This has been covered before but I can't for the life of me find the threads.

A piece of wild armor retains it's AC bonus when the wearer is wildshaped. I assume that because it doesn't state that armor check penalties are negated, wild armor still gives the wearer armor check penalties while wildshaped. Correct?

the Wild armor ability states:

Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with
this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement
bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this
ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns.
While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be
seen. Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and
Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus.

Thanks!

 

[WCrawford]

You are correct. Unless the specific description removed or negates the armor check penalty, it is still in effect. An example of something that does negate/reduce the penalty is mithral.

 

[shilsen]

What WCrawford said. I would add that other penalties such as max Dex bonus, encumbrance, etc. also apply.

 

[Dwarmaj]

Does melded equipment have a weight associated with it? If not, then there should be no armor check penalties or max dex penalties associated with Wild Armor (when it's melded). How can melded equipment restrict movement when it's not there? Maybe it's a house rule, but we play it that anyone that is in an alternate form is not restricted by weight or movement due to melded equipment. Otherwise, how is a druid in the form of a humming bird going to be able to fly?

 

[Darklone]

Think about it like this:
The armour melds into your skin, hardening it. It may not affect your weight a lot, but you'll still feel it... and it's protecting you.

 

[Dwarmaj]

Think about it like this:
The armour melds into your skin, hardening it. It may not affect your weight a lot, but you'll still feel it... and it's protecting you.

However, the description doesn't state that. Only that the Wild Enchantment allows the armor and enhancement bonues to apply even while whileshaped. If the armor would meld into your skin and harden it, wouldn't normal armor also do that?

A druid could wildshape while wearing dragon hide plate mail and not have any armor check, max dex, or other penalties. Why would Wild Armor provide additional penalties that aren't listed in the description?

 

[GodPhoenix]

A druid could wildshape while wearing dragon hide plate mail and not have any armor check, max dex, or other penalties. Why would Wild Armor provide additional penalties that aren't listed in the description?

I think you're misinterpreting the dragonhide entry. From the SRD: "Because dragonhide armor isn’t made of metal, druids can wear it without penalty." That refers to the fact that druids are prohibited from wearing *metal* armor. They would still get the AC check penalty, max dex penalty, etc normally associated with the type of armor that was made out of dragonhide.

Part of the danger in saying that they do not get AC checks penalties etc for wildarmor while wildshaped is that a druid could get the AC benefits of Dragonhide Full Plate Mail (with the wild ability) and get none of the drawbacks of wearing heavy armor.

 

[Dwarmaj]

I think you're misinterpreting the dragonhide entry. From the SRD: "Because dragonhide armor isn’t made of metal, druids can wear it without penalty." That refers to the fact that druids are prohibited from wearing *metal* armor. They would still get the AC check penalty, max dex penalty, etc normally associated with the type of armor that was made out of dragonhide.

Part of the danger in saying that they do not get AC checks penalties etc for wildarmor while wildshaped is that a druid could get the AC benefits of Dragonhide Full Plate Mail (with the wild ability) and get none of the drawbacks of wearing heavy armor.

Not misinterpreting, just not reading in additional requirements that are not stated in the Wild Enchantment description. If a druid wearing Wild Armor does not suffer from armor check penalties or max dex penalties while wildshaped in non-wild armor, then why would they suffer the penalties in Wild Armor when no such penalties are described under the enchantment?

If the wild enchantment mearly "glammers" the armor, making it look as though it's not there, then yes, armor check penalties should apply.

 

[GodPhoenix]

Not misinterpreting, just not reading in additional requirements that are not stated in the Wild Enchantment description.

Oh, sorry...we just disagree I agree with WCrawford and shilsen. Since it doesn't state that the AC checks etc are negated, they still apply...by the wording of the rules.

I can see your point though, but generally in 3.0 and 3.5 everything has some cost associated with it...ex you can be a mage and wear armor but then you risk arcane spell failure. You might say that the +3 enhancement equiv is a high enough cost but (see my previous argument).

 

[Saeviomagy]

Oh, sorry...we just disagree I agree with WCrawford and shilsen. Since it doesn't state that the AC checks etc are negated, they still apply...by the wording of the rules.

No, that's not true.

Melded equipment become nonfunctional.

What does nonfunctional mean? Whatever it did, it no longer does.

Armour gives you an armour bonus, and armour check and arcane spell failure penalties, along with reducing movement speed and adding a maximum dex bonus.

When it is melded, it ceases to do all of the above.

Wild armour specifically continues to provide an armour bonus, and does not specifically continue to provide any of it's other modifiers.

Hence - wild armour does not have armour check penalties, arcane failure or maximum dex while you are wildshaped.

That's how the book goes.

I'll freely admit, however, that it'd be a really good idea to simply treat wild armour as though it was NOT melded, while still having it being not visible and undamageable, merely for balance purposes.

Otherwise you get interesting ideas like a dire-bat shaped druid-monk getting the bonuses of full plate armour as well as monk wisdom to AC and full dex bonus...