D&D (2024) Will Pact Magic survive?

Remathilis

Legend
Different perspectives, I guess. Warlock is one of the most played classes at our tables.

Limitations are inherently fun, to my mind, because they push you to play differently. Warlock would be less fun if it more slots, even if it was more powerful as a result.
It really depends on how reliably you can get short rests. If you don't get them that often, you are often stuck with eldritch blast spam, a few free spells from invocations (provided they don't require spell slot use) and your two actual spells. We had a few warlocks early, but now they are "the class you dip into" a few levels and then switch to paladin or sorcerer.
 

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Undrave

Legend
Different perspectives, I guess. Warlock is one of the most played classes at our tables.

Limitations are inherently fun, to my mind, because they push you to play differently. Warlock would be less fun if it more slots, even if it was more powerful as a result.
Maybe what they could do is have the recharge mechanic of Warlock spell slots be rest-independent and more akin to a quick ritual? Like “you take 5 minutes to contact your Patron and recharge your mystical energies, recovering your spell slots. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your Proficiency bonus and all expended us are restored when you finish a long rest.”
 


Remathilis

Legend
Maybe what they could do is have the recharge mechanic of Warlock spell slots be rest-independent and more akin to a quick ritual? Like “you take 5 minutes to contact your Patron and recharge your mystical energies, recovering your spell slots. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your Proficiency bonus and all expended us are restored when you finish a long rest.”
I would like, if we're going to keep pact magic, is some way to avoid using "spell slot" to cast them to avoid the multi-class problems. If pact magic is going to be a proud nail, it shouldn't interact with other spellcasting at all. No paladin smites, no sorcerer breaking them into spell points, etc. Treat it like monks using ki to casts subclass spells.

That would also mean warlock levels wouldn't stack when determining spellcaster level. Such is life.
 

Undrave

Legend
I would like, if we're going to keep pact magic, is some way to avoid using "spell slot" to cast them to avoid the multi-class problems. If pact magic is going to be a proud nail, it shouldn't interact with other spellcasting at all. No paladin smites, no sorcerer breaking them into spell points, etc. Treat it like monks using ki to casts subclass spells.

That would also mean warlock levels wouldn't stack when determining spellcaster level. Such is life.
I'm totally fine with that. Call them Eldritch Charges. (ooh... make Eldritch Blast inflict more damage the more unspent charges you have!)
 

Pauln6

Hero
The warlock is hugely popular. My criticisms would be that they don't automatically know all the spells on their subclass list (insufficient spells known is a problem for rangers and sorcerers too), the third spell slot feels like it comes in too late (but you can pad this out with feats if you want to), tome warlocks needed some invocations that allow them to learn extra spells known beyond cantrips, daily invocations that also cost spell slots feel a bit burdensome, and there is too much focus in tweaking eldritch blast as opposed to any other cantrips.

Whatever they decide, they should avoiding making the uncomplicated spell casting class too complicated.
 
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I can understand that in the same "it's fun to pour though every monster book to find beasts to wild shape into", but most of my players have avoided the class because of how limiting it is.
the exact oppisist... since you can just blast away with at wills and a few invocations your choice of spells don't matter that much and can be made easier without reading 3 books full of spells
 


Remathilis

Legend
the exact oppisist... since you can just blast away with at wills and a few invocations your choice of spells don't matter that much and can be made easier without reading 3 books full of spells
To be honest, I've usually treated warlocks closer to magical rogues: you have a few neat tricks you can do at will, but more or less do the same thing every round. (Sneak attack vs eldritch blast). They aren't true spellcasters and shouldn't be considered equivalent to them. Which is why I wasn't sure if they would be converted to full or half caster if they were to move to a regular spellcasting system.

As stated, there are just so many little headaches that exist in pact magic: your spell slots per day can be 2, 4, or 6, depending on how stingy your DM/group is with short rests. The interaction with abilities that are fueled by spell slots, the fact that utility magic is wasted (for example, casting shield as a hexblade is a trap since it doesn't scale with spell level). And now that every other caster is being standardized, it just seems bad to have 7 classes all use the same magic rules and one that doesn't.

Honestly, if backwards compatibility wasn't a factor, I'd remove pact casting from them altogether and expand their invocations to cover a lot of the same effects and give them more selections per level. Eldritch blast should be a class feature anyways, so just give them more invocations and then give them more "you can cast Spell x times per rest" invocations.

So idk, but I just hate pact magic as written. Either make warlocks casters or make them weird pseudo magical class abilities like monks, but the spell slots per short rest has got to go.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I know people love the warlock as it stands, but it feels like it has at least one system too many. I could easily see them shaving off one of those systems -- which won't be the subclasses, since they're standardizing those -- to make it easier for new players*.

The question is whether they can do it without being too big of a hassle with backwards compatibility at this point. I'm not sure if they can.

* Yes, someone at your table picked a warlock as their first class and did great -- it's still the most complex class in the PHB by a large margin.
 

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