Will you make transsexual Elves canon in your games ?

[Imaculata]

Not all of us gamers, and otherwise citizens, understand gender as you do today. There's a diminishing consensus (in the USA at least) about the way we understand gender - or, as I prefer to say - sexual identity and the various roles society ascribes to it.

Ideas and understanding of gender change over time, as does society as a whole. It only stands to reason that various media, and their representation of gender, change with it. This is regardless of whether some gamers/citizens understand the changes in gender perception, or are willing to understand them.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ideas and understanding of gender change over time, as does society as a whole. It only stands to reason that various media, and their representation of gender, change with it. This is regardless of whether some gamers/citizens understand the changes in gender perception, or are willing to understand them.

That is perfectly understandable, but a few elites try to force the change and that encounters blowback and you get things like the 2016 election.If things happen organically most of the time I think you would have a better outcome. When you try and force change bad things usually happen (WW1, USA civil war, Bolsheviks etc).

There are also other issues brought up that are reasonable to talk about without being branded abigot- public restrooms, trans males competing in female sports. There are some practicalproblems associated with various issues even if you agree with the guts of what people aresaying. I have DMed for members of the LBQT community no issue going back to the 90's but none ofthem expected me to RP NPCs for their tastes or even brought it up. Mostly I just treated them same as anyone else, talked some crap, ate junkfood and pinged some Orcs or what have you.

 

[Lychee of the Exch.]

Ideas and understanding of gender change over time, as does society as a whole.

Generally true.

It only stands to reason that various media, and their representation of gender, change with it.

Agreed.

This is regardless of whether some gamers/citizens understand the changes in gender perception, or are willing to understand them.

Untrue. Any sufficiently affirmative citizen, as a part of society, shapes the consensus - or lack of ? - of that society. Society changing is the people in society changing.

To elaborate: I don't subscribe to the view (not saying it's your view, Imaculata) that society changes because of an exogenous element - perhaps called "progress" - that makes it change.

To be clear: if a sufficient number of persons reject "gender identity", in the rpg medium or in society at large, as a valid concept, then this concept will not be prevalent.

Perhaps it seems to you that this concept is already prevalent in the USA, but I would then advise you to distinguish between the entertainment industry and the mass media and the society as a whole.

Discussion and the assertion of one's own point of view (what I'm trying to do here) is a better way to attain (or to strive to) consensus between citizens than stealthy (or not so-stealthy) injections of one's political and social leaning into various artistic medium (e.g. RPGs), such injections being presented as "It's just the way it is.", or "It's just the way it will be - soon !" or "It's the one and only good way it should be."

 

[Maxperson]

Normalization isn’t about getting bigots to change their mind. Most grown adults are fairly set in their ways and aren’t going to have their minds changed one way or the other, certainly not by something like an optional rule in an RPG book. Normalization is a long-term goal. The more popular media contains examples of trans people existing and not being treated as out of the ordinary, the more young people who grow up consuming that media will perceive trans people as ordinary. I don’t really care if some transphobe allows the Blessing of Corellon in his games or not. Nor, for that matter, if some trans ally does, or even if some trans person does. What I care about the kids who are just starting to get into RPGs for the first time, seeing this option presented as nonshallantly as the variant human rules. I care about the people who are going to grow up seeing nonbinary gender expression as a perfectly normal part of life.

That's a good point on who it's aimed at, but the game is still a poor place to do it. It doesn't hit enough people to make it very effective. There are other much better venues. These venues are already going though normalization. Schools for one. When my 21 year old daughter was in high school, she would talk about how all of her friends were experimenting with being bisexual to see if they liked it. Being accepting of people who aren't heterosexual was the in thing I guess. She and her friends would talk about how cool persons A, B, C and D of genders W, X, Y and Z were. Now that she's in college, she still talks about how cool it is that the students are so accepting of the various genders. Every generation is becoming more and more tolerant and inclusive.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Charlaquin]

Quite. A societal and therefore political goal.

Everything is political, so I don’t see your point here.

There are 2 kinds of ordinary. There's "ordinary" as being a human being, deserving of love, respect and a chance at happiness. For me, all people born of an human being are thus ordinary, and are my fellow humans: gay, bi, transsexual*, heterosexual, black, white or green, hermaphrodite*, with Down syndrome, etc.

*transgender. *intersex

And there's a different king of ordinary: ordinary as being in the majority.

That’s actually not one of the definitions of the word ordinary. I chose that word very intentionally, as it means “with no special or distinctive features; normal” or “not interesting or exceptional; commonplace.” Transgender folks are by no means a majority, but we are a natural and perfectly normal part of life. Getting the cisgender majority to accept that, though, is a process that’s going to take time. It’s working though. I’ve seen huge strides made in my lifetime.

Transssexual* individuals are a tiny minority of the global population, and so there's nothing ordinary about them, in that meaning of the word.

*Transgender
Not as tiny as you might think. Recent estimates put us at 0.5-0.6% of the population in America, and those estimates are almost certainly too low, as a significant portion of us are not openly trans, and a significant portion may not have realized it. As with non-hetero folks, the more it becomes accepted in mainstream culture, the more people start coming out and the more people who had never questioned their sexuality start realizing they might not be strictly hetero. Certainly we’re not a majority, but we are more commonplace than you think we are, and we are a normal part of life.

I'm aware that since the dawn of times there have been human beings who didn't fit within the mundane biological/sexual framework. And the society of their times had a place and roles for them - by the way, we all have a place and roles in our society and I don't see anything demeaning about that. For example, I'm a straight husband, with a wife and a kid, and that's a part (only a part) of my role within my society.

So I don't deny transsexual* individuals a place in society. I want them to feel welcome, at my table and in other parts of the world. And I will play with transsexual* individuals as I play with any other fellow human beings. I'm quite sure (without being able to prove it) that there's an overwhelming majority of gamers, in the western part of the world, who would accept transsexuals* at their table, like I do.

*transgender *transgender *trans people

But I won't pretend to their faces that they're ordinary - ordinary as in mundane, ordinary as being in the majority. Frankly, I would feel like it's vaguely insulting to them.

As a transgender person: it is not insulting to be treated as ordinary as in mundane; we are. It would not insulting to be treated as the majority, though it would be very strange since we’re not, by a longshot. What is insulting is when people try to pretend they’re accepting and welcoming, but still try to treat us as aberrant.

Being transsexual seems to me to be hard living, and I bet it's not solely because of the intolerance and the ills of the society around trans persons. Being or feeling different is always (often) hard by itself.

Feeling different is not hard. It’s the easiest thing in the world; I’ve always been different and proud of it. What’s hard is being treated as if being different makes me wrong.

Let me clarify: if I had a trans* at my table, I wouldn't treat him/her differently from the way I treat any other gamer. Specifically, I wouldn't present him/her with an option like Corellon's Blessing which has been carved to pander to his/her specificities by some well-meaning/deluded "progressives" in the rpg industry.

*trans person
Hang on, how is that the way you treat any other gamer? Do you not present people who like the fantasy genre with an option which has been crafted to appeal to them? Do you not let Harry Potter fans play wizards? Do you not let men play male characters and women play female characters? Do you ban the human PC race?

Yes, I too care. Soon I will introduce my 10 years old kid to 5th edition D&D, and there's zero chance in Hell that I will present transssexual-glorifying material to him in a nonchalant way. Nope.

Like I said, I don’t much care how you as an individual introduce your children to the game. Fortunately, you’re not the only person introducing young people to the hobby, and plenty are finding their way to it on their own.

To me, transsexuality* is not "a way of life" or a choice.

*gender
Indeed, it’s not. It’s a part of one’s identity.

I don't subscribe to the post-modern "gender identity" baloney theory, and I don't believe in a future where - whether we are bi, hetero, trans, gay, green, white or black - we all choose our identity "a la carte" while chanting kumbaya together like in a happy-hippy weirdo leftie family (though I dig hippies .

You believe whatever you want to believe. I’m going to continue helping the society I live in to move towards accepting and embracing people regardless of their identities.

Not at my table. And not in my rpg of choice, if I have any choice in the matter (and as a customer and gamer, I have).

Assuming D&D is your rpg of choice, I’d say it’s a little late for that. It’s alread in. You certainly have the option as a consumer and a gamer not to support D&D, and to find some other game that doesn’t treat trans folks as normal if that’s the rock you want to live under. But the industry as a whole is progressing, like it or not. Exalted 3rd Edition has a trans character on the cover. World and Chronicles of Darkness regularly include trans and nonbinary example characters and have been doing so for well over a decade. More and more indie RPGs are making steps like putting separate lines on their character sheet for sex and for gender, or including a line for preferred pronouns. Progress takes time, but little by little the places you’ll be able to go to keep pretending being trans isn’t perfectly normal will get smaller and smaller.

 

[Charlaquin]

That's a good point on who it's aimed at, but the game is still a poor place to do it. It doesn't hit enough people to make it very effective.

I disagree. Media has a huge impact on the way people contextualize their world, and D&D is incredibly popular right now. Even if it wasn’t, the goal is to cast as wide a net as possible.

There are other much better venues. These venues are already going though normalization. Schools for one. When my 21 year old daughter was in high school, she would talk about how all of her friends were experimenting with being bisexual to see if they liked it. Being accepting of people who aren't heterosexual was the in thing I guess. She and her friends would talk about how cool persons A, B, C and D of genders W, X, Y and Z were. Now that she's in college, she still talks about how cool it is that the students are so accepting of the various genders. Every generation is becoming more and more tolerant and inclusive.

Yes, that’s absolutely a better venue. We’re already there though. I’d count your daughter’s experience in high school and college as wins for LGBTQIA acceptance, but that doesn’t mean we should rest on our laurels. Wide net.

 

[Umbran]

To be clear: if a sufficient number of persons reject "gender identity", in the rpg medium or in society at large, as a valid concept, then this concept will not be prevalent.

Perhaps it seems to you that this concept is already prevalent in the USA, but I would then advise you to distinguish between the entertainment industry and the mass media and the society as a whole.

I think you are missing some of the point here. And Imaculata can correct me if I am off about what was meant...

The consensus is that the planet is round. There are some who do not agree with that consensus. However, those people also don't actually understand the basic laws of gravitation - for by those laws, a mass the size of the Earth *will* pull itself into a basically spherical shape. Lay it out flat if you want - that form will not be stable. It will collapse in on itself until it is round.

Some things are not about consensual reality - they are about physical reality. And there are segments of the population who do not understand the reality, but hold on to an outmoded view.

Human gender and sexuality are *not* entirely a matter of consensus - there are elements of their reality that are not up for debate, not subject to vote or mutual agreement. Our understanding of these things has grown in recent decades. There was a time when the consensus was that being homosexual was a choice. The consensus was simply incorrect.

And when the consensus does not match reality, there will be problems.

 

[Umbran]

It may indeed be linguistically treacherous--which is a fascinating concept/turn of phrase in its own right--but in this instance, it happens to be accurate. The general consensus (though you'll certainly find individuals who argue otherwise) is that enbies--that is, nonbinary folks--do indeed fall under the larger umbrella of trans.

In my area/in my circles, the language goes thus: Folks whose gender matches their birth sex are "cis-gender". Those whose gender is the opposite of their birth sex are "transgender". Those who do not well fit into the distinct two-gender pattern are "non-binary". A transgender person still specifically identifies with one of the two broadly accepted genders, while non-binary people do not strongly identify with one, so the one cant' really be used as an overall term. This is not "individuals who argue otherwise". This is the common use of the local LGBTQ community that I interact with. I can't say everyone in the Boston area follows this use, but I can say it is dozens of people. I've been told that when I have to say, "not-cis", then say "not-cis" or say, "trans- and non-binary".

And, my apologies to those who don't like this form. It is how I've been told to use the language by those I interact with, and I have to take *someone's* guidance.

Edit to add: I've also been told that "gender-queer" is becoming a more accepted form to refer to all those who are not cis-gender.

 

[Umbran]

That's a good point on who it's aimed at, but the game is still a poor place to do it.

The good place to do it is the place you are, where you can reasonably reach. The people who write D&D are not in schools. They are in D&D. So, the game becomes a good place for them to include and normalize.