Winged Horde Flanking Question

[AbdulAlhazred]

Opposite Sides: To flank an enemy, you and an ally must be adjacent to the enemy and on opposite sides or corners of the enemy’s space.

The rules text actually does specify precisely that, in exactly those words.

Yes, but the part of the rule I quoted above is a whole other clause and only talks about "you" being able to make an OA. Like I said, I think RAI is you both need to meet all the requirements, but there is enough of a hole there for rules lawyers to drive through...

 

[lukelightning]

Hmm, I can see both sides of the flanking issue (both sides, get it?):

A: When you are dazed, but your friend isn't, you still get the benefit of the flank because your friend is a credible threat to your enemy, distracting it enough for you to get combat advantage.

Or

B: Since you are dazed (or whatever prevents you from making opportunity attacks) your enemy doesn't need to worry about you as much (even on your turn, since everything is supposed to be happening more-or-less at once), so it can pay more attention to your ally's actions and avoid granting CA.

I think the latter is more nuanced and quite possibly RAI, and I think that's the way I am going to run it.

 

[Budalic]

Yes, but the part of the rule I quoted above is a whole other clause and only talks about "you" being able to make an OA. Like I said, I think RAI is you both need to meet all the requirements, but there is enough of a hole there for rules lawyers to drive through...

Well, if the enemies in your campaign are rules lawyers, you better raise your Diplomacy and Bluff skills.

If the Dungeon Master thinks otherwise, though...

 

[Aulirophile]

Yes, but the part of the rule I quoted above is a whole other clause and only talks about "you" being able to make an OA. Like I said, I think RAI is you both need to meet all the requirements, but there is enough of a hole there for rules lawyers to drive through...

I disagree, and believe that in order to reach that interpretation you have to quote rules out of context.

Combat Advantage: You have combat advantage against an enemy you flank.

You have to Flank to have CA, straightforward. Proceeding on to what "Flanking" is.

Opposite Sides: To flank an enemy, you and an ally must be adjacent to the enemy and on opposite sides or corners of the enemy’s space. When in doubt about whether two characters flank an enemy, trace an imaginary line between the centers of the characters’ squares. If the line passes through opposite sides or corners of the enemy’s space, the enemy is flanked.

So requirement one is you have to be in a position that allows Flanking (picture in the PHB is pretty clear on what those positions are), and two creatures are needed to Flank.

Must Be Able to Attack: You and your ally must be able to attack the enemy, whether you’re armed or unarmed. If there’s no line of effect between your enemy and either you or your ally, you don’t flank. If you’re affected by an effect that prevents you from taking opportunity actions, you don’t flank.

So, Flanking is a condition that requires two people (as is made explicitly clear over and over again). If anything prevents you from Flanking, line of effect, etc. then you don't Flank. Since Flanking requires two people, if one of you isn't Flanking, then neither is the other one (clause one). This is why you can't look at a single clause. Either you both have it or neither one of you does.

 

[DracoSuave]

This is one of those things where the english language is a jerk, and is -actually- a jerk, and not someone being obtuse.

The plural of 'you' is 'you'.

In the case of flanking, it's talking about you and an ally. The correct pronoun to refer to both is... well... 'you'.

But regardless, no matter how much you want to 'rules lawyer', you cannot flank by yourself.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

This is one of those things where the english language is a jerk, and is -actually- a jerk, and not someone being obtuse.

The plural of 'you' is 'you'.

In the case of flanking, it's talking about you and an ally. The correct pronoun to refer to both is... well... 'you'.

But regardless, no matter how much you want to 'rules lawyer', you cannot flank by yourself.

I'm on your side -this time. You are awesome. Guess who...

 

[Gruns]

But regardless, no matter how much you want to 'rules lawyer', you cannot flank by yourself.

Except Chuck Norris. He can flank by himself.

Later
Gruns



(Sorry, it's 4am)