D&D General Wishing Away The Adventure

[Vaalingrade]

I have never seen a wish used for something not extremely petty and or silly that's not been the subject of the main plot.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And the second wish they make fails because they're immune to any and all effects of any wish spell.

Wording is important in wishes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Has anyone ever actually done this, or seen it in play? Is it a valid concern? Why would players choose to avoid playing?

I don't like adventure bypassing magic, but if it is an option the characters have, then it would be weird for them not to use it. If I had that option, I would probably do it, even though as a player I wouldn't want to bypass the adventure. But the character obviously would try to achieve their goal in most expedient manner.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't like adventure bypassing magic, but if it is an option the characters have, then it would be weird for them not to use it. If I had that option, I would probably do it, even though as a player I wouldn't want to bypass the adventure. But the character obviously would try to achieve their goal in most expedient manner.

Even as a player, sometimes folks are just looking at that finish line.

 

[Nefermandias]

But there's a BIG downside to trying a more powerful wish (in 5e). 25% chance of losing your spellcasting ability. How often is the caster willing to court that?

And if it's from an item? Well, that's on the DM for giving it to the party.

Where in the text says you have a 25% chance of losing your spellcasting ability?

 

[Mort]

Where in the text says you have a 25% chance of losing your spellcasting ability?

I was going from memory and, You know, I must have gotten that from somewhere else (now I have to find out where)!

The ACTUAL 5e consequences aren't worse, but they're pretty bad:

"The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a long rest, you take 1d10 necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can't be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength drops to 3, if it isn't 3 or lower already, for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light activity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress."

So you're definitely WAY off your A game, and the 33% chance of never being able to cast wish again isn't nothing! And that DEFINITELY transfers to items.

 

[Dausuul]

Inspired by the High Level Adventures thread, but focused on a particular thing.

There seems to be a concern that high level PCs, or even lower level ones in possession of a wish, would use a wish to just not go on the adventure. If the quest is that they retrieve the Sword of Awesome from the Tomb of Badness, they will just wish the sword into their hand. Or otherwise use powerful magic to circumvent play.

Has anyone ever actually done this, or seen it in play? Is it a valid concern? Why would players choose to avoid playing?

Because they are attempting to play in character, and almost any rational PC would prefer to just conjure up the MacGuffin rather than go through a lot of needless pain and risk.

Whether or not this constitutes "circumventing the adventure" depends on the DM. When planning adventures, I assume the PCs will use whatever abilities they've got in whatever way seems expedient. If I know they have a spell that can retrieve the MacGuffin from the comfort of their living room, I presume they will use it and plan accordingly -- to the point that I might not even have the Tomb of Badness drawn up, and be thrown for a loop if the players decide to do what they're "supposed to" and fight their way through.

However, keeping track of all the options at the PCs' disposal does become difficult at high levels.

Yes.
There's a player I've been gaming with since the 90s who hilariously, predictably finds any way to avoid the adventure.
Recent example...
GM: "There's a monster coming."
Player: "This looks dangerous. I'm going to Teleport back to town!"
GM: "So ... uh ... what are you going to do for the rest of the night?"
Player: "I'll just sit here and watch you guys play. At least my character is safe."
GM: "So ... it's kind of a part of the social contract that you are playing with everyone else. This is a team game."
Player: "Well, next time I'll bring them with me on the Teleport."

That's a totally different situation. The PC here is not trying to bypass an obstacle in pursuit of the goal; they're trying to duck out of pursuing the goal altogether.

If the player really is going to just sit and watch everyone else play, however, I have no problem with that. I don't understand it, but it's not disrupting the game for anybody else. Usually this type of player wants the DM to whip up a whole separate adventure for them on the fly, centered on their wacky hijinks in town, and run it in parallel with what the rest of the party is doing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

A player with no spellcasting ability could use the wish BUT only with the "standard" options allowed. A spell caster could use the full powered version if the chose - but they would be subject to the 25% chance of permanent spell loss.

Genie: There are three rules: No wishing for more wishes, not making someone love you, no raising the dead.

Player: I wish Wish in D&D was ever actually designed to be a player choice or else just something you can get as an item instead of taking up one of your spells known.

Genie: There are now four rules.

 

[pukunui]

I have seen it, but not to this extent. A small example if that I had a bridge with some bandits extracting a toll to cross. The idea was that there was going to be a fight and some roleplay to learn some side quest stuff, but the PCs just paid it and said- Begone.

Wow. My players always flatly refuse to pay the bandit toll. They will always attack bandits. No matter what level they are. LOL.

(One day I'll work up some high-level bandits who can kick the low-level PCs' butts and make them pay the toll until the PCs finally get high enough level themselves to be able to challenge the bandits and win.)

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Yes.
There's a player I've been gaming with since the 90s who hilariously, predictably finds any way to avoid the adventure.
Recent example...
GM: "There's a monster coming."
Player: "This looks dangerous. I'm going to Teleport back to town!"
GM: "So ... uh ... what are you going to do for the rest of the night?"
Player: "I'll just sit here and watch you guys play. At least my character is safe."
GM: "So ... it's kind of a part of the social contract that you are playing with everyone else. This is a team game."
Player: "Well, next time I'll bring them with me on the Teleport."

I have several rules at my table for Session Zero. Below are some big ones.

1. Create a character that has a legitimate reason and motivation to want to adventure with the party, and is flexible enough to be able to adjust when curveballs come your way. If you say "My character wouldn't go on this adventure" that's on you. You have absolute control of your character and it is never out of your control.
2. The spotlight follows the adventure. If you make decisions that write your character out of the story, your character is out of the story. Did you really want to play something else? Make something new, and remember Rule #1. If you don't want to follow rule #1 do you really want to play at my table?
3. Respect each other's agency. Want to have built-in strife or complications that does not ruin the party dynamic, like siblings or rivals, or romantic interest? Solicit interest from one of the other players. Talk to each other, to determine shared boundaries, and color within the lines. That way you can enjoy any bickering that will naturally fall by the wayside when either of you are in danger so will always save each other.
4. Wheaton's Law. (Don't be a jerk.) If you are a jerk and say "That's just what my character would do" without buy-in from the table, the other players don't have to accept it. If the rest of the PCs leave your character behind... the spotlight follows them, not the jerk. The jerk character will become an NPC and I will do as I please with my new villain (or homeless bum.) You may not get an opportunity to make a new PC if I see a pattern.