D&D General Wishing Away The Adventure

[Maxperson]

Not really. If the rules say the crossbow cannot kill me, why should I act like it could? And there is an easy solution, make it so that the crossbow can easily kill the characters. It is another matter whether that results the sort of gameplay we actually want, but to some it might.

Because the rules say that the crossbow can kill even a 20th level PC. The skill, luck, etc. hit points keep the crossbow bolt from actually striking your body, because if it did, the 20th level PC would be very hurt and could die. This is represented by death saves.

Which brings me to one of my house rules. If you opt not to engage the skill, luck, etc. hit points to avoid the danger, you will only have your physical hit points to rely on and those cap out at your con score. If a PC falls off a 200 foot cliff, they might get lucky and fall through a bush slowing the fall, and grab a few roots slowing it further taking resulting in the 10d6 damage coming off of the PC's full hit points. However, if you just step off of the cliff, you've told me that you aren't using those other hit points and the 10d6 is almost surely going to kill your PC. The same would apply if someone told me that they were standing still and not avoiding the crossbow bolt.

 

[Maxperson]

I did do the "teleport away to town" thing once, in miniature. It was with an inexperienced DM, starting us off at 7th level with an in media res scene of us in a desert, 500 feet away from the gates of a city, being chased down by a ravenous horde of giant scorpions. It was to be an epic chase scene consisting of lots of competing skill checks.

My bard won initiative, so I picked a player, said to his character "hey, wanna get out of here?", then we dimension doored to the city gates, bought lemonades from a street vendor, and watched the chase. Once the rest of the party got within 100 feet I conjured a major image of a wounded mammoth lurching up out of the sand and running across between them and the scorpions to run interference.

I love when the players come up with clever or unexpected ways to avoid or defeat challenges.

 

[Reynard]

It isn't avoiding play. It is engaging in play that you didn't expect. Might as well ask why they choose to fly or teleport, instead of walk through your carefully prepped encounter map.

Avoiding risk is pretty central to many styles of play.
Clever use of your available resources to reach your goals quickly is also central to many styles of play.
Bypassing play that doesn't seem meaningful ("Oh, gods, another McGuffin quest? Really?") is important to a lot of play.

Allow me to reiterate that this is not a problem I am having or have ever had, or even know for sure exists. It is an argument that pops up in discussions about and against high level play.

 

[Mistwell]

ok it's a 9th level spell that only duplicates the effects of 8th level spells and below. If you go by straight rules it can't do anything a 9th level caster with a full 8th level and below spellbook couldn't do. Unless your giving out mythic wishes from some more powerful source . And they only end up in the game if you the DM let the part find one or the wizard hits 9th level. In short it's just normal high level stuff...

As others mentioned it does do more than that. You can wish for anything, but there are consequences.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Allow me to reiterate that this is not a problem I am having or have ever had, or even know for sure exists. It is an argument that pops up in discussions about and against high level play.

So basically what the complaint is about, that it is harder to design games to high level casters, as their spells can bypass so many challenges. And I think that is true.

Personally as GM I always seriously limit teleportation magic, as that is the most obvious form of content bypassing magic, and I find the style of play where distance becomes trivial and people just port from place to place dull. I want high level characters to have cool magical mounts or perhaps a flying ship, a flying castle even, and I want them to travel through weird and fantastic locations.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

In my experience (as DM and player), if the party has access to a limited amount of wishes (maybe a scroll or something), they are loathe to use them for anything other than bringing back dead party members when other options aren't available.

But when they are high enough level to have reliable access to easy methods to accomplish your tasks, like long range travel and divination? Absolutely players will use them. It's not that they don't want to experience the adventure, it just doesn't make any sense not to use those abilities they have. That being said, the people I play with would be easily sold on not skipping things with those abilities if they were given a good reason.

Putting thought into preventing players from circumventing challenges in high level adventures could also include putting thought into positive reinforcement for not circumventing those challenges. Give them enticing reasons to do things the not-so-easy way rather than just trying to make it impossible. The latter tends to make us want to find ways to do it anyway--it is D&D after all, and for many of us, part of the appeal is a multiverse where theoretically anything is possible.

 

[Umbran]

Allow me to reiterate that this is not a problem I am having or have ever had, or even know for sure exists. It is an argument that pops up in discussions about and against high level play.

Sorry, the "you" and "your" above was intended to be generic, not you, Reynard, specifically.

 

[Bigsta]

In 5e, a first level wizard knows that one day, when he is high enough level, he can simply chose to add Wish into his spell book. So what happens when the first level player says, "I know that one day, I, Castor Magington, and my brave party will reach high level and acquire the Sword of Awesome from the Tomb of Badness. Upon learning to cast wish, I will immediately use such spell to wish the Sword back in time to this very place at this very time."

Does the sword appear?

 

[Reynard]

In 5e, a first level wizard knows that one day, when he is high enough level, he can simply chose to add Wish into his spell book. So what happens when the first level player says, "I know that one day, I, Castor Magington, and my brave party will reach high level and acquire the Sword of Awesome from the Tomb of Badness. Upon learning to cast wish, I will immediately use such spell to wish the Sword back in time to this very place at this very time."

Does the sword appear?

No. the wizard doesn't know anything of the kind. they have a hope. But then, ten minutes later, they step in a kobold punji pit and die horribly.

 

[Bigsta]

No. the wizard doesn't know anything of the kind. they have a hope. But then, ten minutes later, they step in a kobold punji pit and die horribly.

The DM doesn't know either. This isn't an authored story.