D&D 5E Witch Bolt as a cantrip?

[doctorhook]

Bear with me, this is a crazy idea that I haven't fully explored yet: what if witch bolt was a cantrip? It kinda (really) sucks as written, but as a cantrip it might be interesting. Thoughts?

 

[Erik42]

Except that it's not a cantrip because it is more powerful than a cantrip. It does 1d12 damage while the other, similar cantrips, are doing 1d10. Then there is the possibility of doing 1d12 per turn without needing a to hit roll for up to a minute. It is not an overpowering spell, but definitely more powerful than the edition's cantrips, as written.

 

[jgsugden]

It is fine as is. If I were doing a cantrip version of it, the damage would be d4, but otherwise the same.

 

[famousringo]

Yeah, you'd want to tweak the damage. Down to a d4 seems a little harsh, but no more than a d8 for sure.

Might also be worth adjusting the range. A 10 foot range would be easier to escape and more dangerous for the caster, and perhaps justify a larger damage die. Maybe d10. Compare to Poison Spray which does d12 and is save-based, but doesn't 'lock-on' like Witch Bolt.

 

[Gadget]

I would rather power WB up to make it appropriate for a spell slot. I think the idea is to get your inner Emperor Palpatine on, but it is just to weak as is. Either add in some type of status effect (maybe even upping the level if a status effect plus damage is too much for a first level spell), or allow you to switch targets as long as you retain concentration.

 

[doctorhook]

Yeah, you'd want to tweak the damage. Down to a d4 seems a little harsh, but no more than a d8 for sure.

Might also be worth adjusting the range. A 10 foot range would be easier to escape and more dangerous for the caster, and perhaps justify a larger damage die. Maybe d10. Compare to Poison Spray which does d12 and is save-based, but doesn't 'lock-on' like Witch Bolt.

I was certain a damage reduction would be necessary. d4 is pretty harsh, but I think even d8 might be too strong for something that sustains as an action. I'm thinking d6 would be alright.

I understand why you'd wanna roll back the range, but I kinda dislike the inconsistency in spell ranges. (I think we should be able to group ranged spells into short, medium, and long range, and those words should always mean the same thing.) Still, that's not a great reason not to, so how 'bout 15 ft? Still gives the enemy enough space to cancel the spell by getting behind cover, but still forces the caster in closer.

What about concentration? Witch Bolt RAW requires it, and the it's also logical given the description of the spell. In the RAW, requiring concentration is one of the main reasons this spell sucks as badly as it does: not only is it close-range, swingy, and easy to escape, but it also prevents the caster from maintaining any other spell (on top of still eating his action each round).

I would rather power WB up to make it appropriate for a spell slot. I think the idea is to get your inner Emperor Palpatine on, but it is just to weak as is. Either add in some type of status effect (maybe even upping the level if a status effect plus damage is too much for a first level spell), or allow you to switch targets as long as you retain concentration.

I was actually looking for an interesting lightning cantrip and found myself thinking Witch Bolt might fit.

Of course, a more useful 1st-level version of this spell would be nice too.

 

[TheCelric]

I don't understand why it isn't a good spell as written. Maybe I'm looking at it from the eyes of a 3rd level Warlock, but with a single attack roll I can continue to do 2d12 damage each turn automatically. Where's the bad in that? It's clearly better than a cantrip at that point, and if there's even a hint of a melee line preventing a rush at me, I'm golden.

Please explain?

 

[famousringo]

I don't understand why it isn't a good spell as written. Maybe I'm looking at it from the eyes of a 3rd level Warlock, but with a single attack roll I can continue to do 2d12 damage each turn automatically. Where's the bad in that? It's clearly better than a cantrip at that point, and if there's even a hint of a melee line preventing a rush at me, I'm golden.

Please explain?

The main issue is that it's so easy to break. Disengage and run out of range, or behind an obstacle, or behind an enemy or ally and no more ongoing damage. On top of that, there's opportunity cost. A lot of things you might do with that action have a chance of doing as much or more damage.

No book in front of me, but I recall reading a post somewhere that said only the up-front damage scaled, and subsequent damage stayed at 1d12.

 

[Staffan]

I don't understand why it isn't a good spell as written. Maybe I'm looking at it from the eyes of a 3rd level Warlock, but with a single attack roll I can continue to do 2d12 damage each turn automatically. Where's the bad in that? It's clearly better than a cantrip at that point, and if there's even a hint of a melee line preventing a rush at me, I'm golden.

Please explain?

Only the original damage scales with spell level. After that, it's 1d12 per round, requiring concentration, actions, range, and puts a big target on you. As a comparison, Hex + Eldritch Bolt would deal 1d10+1d6+3 (or so - I'm assuming Agonizing Bolt), almost twice as much. At 5th level when you get a second attack with Eldritch Bolt, it's not even close anymore.

 

[Gadget]

I don't understand why it isn't a good spell as written. Maybe I'm looking at it from the eyes of a 3rd level Warlock, but with a single attack roll I can continue to do 2d12 damage each turn automatically. Where's the bad in that? It's clearly better than a cantrip at that point, and if there's even a hint of a melee line preventing a rush at me, I'm golden.

Please explain?

I'm away from my books at the moment, but here it goes: You have to hit with a spell attack. That makes it kind of all or nothing, but there is the chance that you will miss and no 'save for half'. When you do hit, the damage is okay (1d12 is pretty swingy), but you have to use concentration and your action to get the benefit of continuing damage in subsequent rounds. This could be nice, but given the largely short duration of 5e combats, tends to drag out the damage and the combat is usually over by the time the damage inflicted builds up. The target can avoid subsequent damage by moving out of range or getting full cover, or he can just move up and pound you to break concentration (granted, the target is unlikely to know how the spell works in detail, but trying one or more of these things is probably what the victim was going to do anyway). So, mediocre damage round by round at the cost of your concentration and subsequent actions that can be disrupted rather easily. Oh, and the combat is usually over by the time the damage starts to add up. Also, using a higher level spell slot only ups the initial damage, not the following rounds' damage.

So, it is not absolutely terrible, especially if you can contrive to have advantage on the spell attack roll, or cast true strike (which makes the set up and payoff take even longer, by which time your group will have already finished a short rest). It may be a good spell to break out on a single big bruiser type that your melee types are tangling with; if you can hit, you can keep pouring in damage each round without much risk of it being disrupted for only one spell slot. But, IMHO, it needs a bit more to make it live up to its billing. Maybe the target loses its reaction, like with shocking grasp, or has disadvantage on ability checks (this would probably be too much for a 1st level spell). This would really help convey the whole writhing on the floor until your dad disrupts the spell vibe (err, or something like that) and make it a more worthwhile choice.