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Witch Hunter: time for buyer's remorse?

HalWhitewyrm

First Post
My main complaint is that we didn't put more encouragement to the Grand Master to give out Hero Points easily, because when we play, they are earned and spent constantly. That was our intent, we want players to go over the top and get themselves into the kind of binds that the heroes in movies and novels routinely find themselves in, and then use the Hero Points to simulate the fact that the script-writer is on the protagonists' side.
Every GMs I have spoken to has adopted a more liberal Hero Point economy; I think it's universal, which means there is a lot of sense in doing that. I personally use Hero Points a lot, and just as well they get spent a lot, so the players have had their chances to be awesome, but as we approach the end of the adventure and I check my tally, each player has about 2 average. Let those Hero Points fly and encourage their use, either directly by telling the players, or indirectly by putting them in situations where a Hero Point is practically needed to make it through. In my experience, they learn fast.
 

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notwolf

First Post
well, i picked it up outta the Game Trade/Previews thingy, thinking it'd be a d20 deal.

it's not.

it's a good read, but i find it sits much like the majority of my White Wolf stuff: a good read around the mechanics.

p'raps with the upcoming Solomon Kane flick we'll see a d20 version of that 'world'.
 

Erik Mona

Adventurer
I think there's an important element worth remembering, here.

Witch Hunter is powering one of Paradigm's organized play programs, and Paradigm does RPG organized play better than any company in the business, including (especially?) Wizards of the Coast.

As it was designed to handle the rigors of a huge organized play campaign (think of the most obnoxious rules lawyer you know an multiply him by at least 300), I am guessing that the good folks at Paradigm put a lot of effort in getting the game balance right.

I am not saying that they necessarily made all of the right calls, but there is no better playtest than an organized play campaign, and any problem areas are sure to come to light much more quickly in a Paradigm product than in just about any other in the market.

I think these guys are responsive, and you can be sure that the second edition of their game will be one of the most aggressively playtested systems on the market*.

--Erik Mona

* Aside from Pathfinder, of course. ;)
 

Focus more on the story aspects, and when it comes to combat, play it stylistically, more cinematic. Combat will be as complicated as you let it be, really, so don't. Once you do it a couple of times you'll find it's actually quite intuitive and you learn the few basic rules you need and go from there.

Looking in the combat chapter, there's a bunch of extra options possible. Breaking stuff, fighting defensively, and so on.

Honestly, in my game I haven't used any of that stuff yet. If I've got a player that explicitly asks about it (like doing Two Weapon-Fighting) then I'll take a quick look at that chunk and move on from there.

Later, when I feel like I've got a good handle on the system, I might start incorporating some of those extra options based on what a player describes their character doing, but for now I'm not fussed about it.

My main complaint is that we didn't put more encouragement to the Grand Master to give out Hero Points easily, because when we play, they are earned and spent constantly. That was our intent, we want players to go over the top and get themselves into the kind of binds that the heroes in movies and novels routinely find themselves in, and then use the Hero Points to simulate the fact that the script-writer is on the protagonists' side.

Every GMs I have spoken to has adopted a more liberal Hero Point economy; I think it's universal, which means there is a lot of sense in doing that.

I'd agree that the book doesn't really convey how the Hero Points are supposed to flow, at least if the flow is supposed to be earned/spent constantly. It seems like a more open version of Action Points in d20; although I'd say most versions of AP I've seen for d20 suck.

Here's a repost of the rules I posted over at the Paradigm boards (with a couple of clarifying bits) that I'm going to adopt into my Witch Hunter game. The intent is to get that quick earn/spend thing going, and to try and have the players themselves be encouraging each other:

[sblock=My Hero Point change]
2. Hero Points will change how they behave slightly.

A quick recap of what they can do:

A) Add an extra die to the pool
B) Negate a Wound
C) Resist a Sin being triggered
D) Use a Talent a character qualifies for, but doesn't actually have
E) Ignore penalties due to injury
F) Stay conscious if the roll is failed
G) Spend one to not actually die
H) 10 Hero Points may be exchanged for 1 True Faith Point


The big change is, instead of Hero Points being exclusively awarded by me, there will be a pool of Hero Points for the table. Anyone can "give" a Hero Point to anyone else, but once the pool is depleted, no more can be given out.

Until a player spends it.

At which point, the Hero Point goes back into the pool and can be given to someone else.

The "pool" is literally a bowl with poker chips in it. I'd use dice, but I don't have the extra 30 d10 I'd need. :) A player can simply tell another player how awesome [whatever] was, and fish a chip out of the bowl.

If the bowl gets emptied out? Players can't give each other HP until some of the hoarders do something with them. Either spend them doing awesome stuff, or bank them towards increasing their True Faith score.

Hero Points are _not_ carried over from session to session. A character has 2 HP to start (every session), and that's it. A player can't ask for a Hero Point, but anyone at the table that thinks what another person did is cool can give one to that person.

A person can "bank" Hero Points, to buy up their True Faith score. If they do this, the person simply makes note of how many points have been banked/spent towards earning the increase in True Faith, and the Hero Points are then returned to the pool. Banked HP can not be spent to do HP things. They've already been "spent" if you will.

The GM can still award HP as they see fit, and do not have to draw from the HP Pool to do so. They _can_ do it from the HP Pool to start if they'd like. The main incentive to doing this is to show the players how the HP Pool is going to work. Once they get it and start awarding/spending points from the Pool, the GM can choose to award from the Pool or not.

As I see it, pulling from the Pool in the table is a sort of reminder to the players that "This rocks, and it's cool to see it." Awarding the HP from the GM's stash (and thereby not depleting the pool) is a way for the GM to really highlight and encourage certain behaviors.

I tend to like to run high action games, and have characters that are larger than life. Switching over to a Hero Point economy like this is going to help move that forward I think.

This rule is untested currently in Witch Hunter, but I'm going to institute it in my next game. I've done this in other games before, and it's gone quite nicely. It does have to sometimes be tweaked depending on the game system, as well as the style of play you're trying for, but if it's a high-action game, this generally helps to support it.

The Hero Point Pool is equal to twice the number of players in the game. This doesn't include the GM, unless you've got a small group (2 or 3 players).[/sblock]

As it was designed to handle the rigors of a huge organized play campaign (think of the most obnoxious rules lawyer you know an multiply him by at least 300), I am guessing that the good folks at Paradigm put a lot of effort in getting the game balance right.

I am not saying that they necessarily made all of the right calls, but there is no better playtest than an organized play campaign, and any problem areas are sure to come to light much more quickly in a Paradigm product than in just about any other in the market.

This is a good point that I kinda missed making in my "impressions of Witch Hunter" thread. While Organized Play doesn't tend to do anything for me, I think us Home Play folks do get to benefit from having all the Organized Play folks going over the rules and playing it as they do. It's almost like on-going playtesting. It doesn't mean that all the things deemed to be a problem for Organized Play will be a problem for Home Play people. But it does mean that there's a much greater chance of any "gotcha!!" type stuff getting identified earlier.

And of course we benefit because Paradigm has been cool enough to post their Organized Play stuff up, and say it's going to stay there. Free adventures for our use, and we _know_ they've been playtested. _THAT'S_ the kind of thing I think of when I think of "support" of a game line by a company, not just pumping out new products. Although I do plan on picking up the Adversaries Tome next year. :D

Thanks for making that point Erik.
 



Crothian

First Post
well, i picked it up outta the Game Trade/Previews thingy, thinking it'd be a d20 deal.

it's not.

it's a good read, but i find it sits much like the majority of my White Wolf stuff: a good read around the mechanics.

p'raps with the upcoming Solomon Kane flick we'll see a d20 version of that 'world'.

It is not d20 and I think it is a solid game but I think the nWoD books are great too. :D

Soloman Kane as an RPG is already out there in a fine book for Savage Worlds. I will be suprised to see a license in the d20 ruleset again.
 


Carnivorous_Bean

First Post
Well, I've got the book in my hot little claws at this very moment -- first RPG I've bought in 4 years, actually -- and I'm reading through it. Will be giving the rules a spin once I've read through it once, and hopefully, 'twill work as well as those in this thread say. :)

I have to say, it looks pretty solid so far. ;)
 

Walt C

Explorer
Well, I've got the book in my hot little claws at this very moment -- first RPG I've bought in 4 years, actually -- and I'm reading through it. Will be giving the rules a spin once I've read through it once, and hopefully, 'twill work as well as those in this thread say. :)

I have to say, it looks pretty solid so far. ;)

Make sure you take a look at the Dark Providence adventures (freely available on the website). Even if you don't use them, they really help ground the setting, tone, and flavor of the game. I've run the first three and had no "rules problems" so far.
 

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