Wizard Power: Hypnotism

[Nilbog]

Hi

I'm starting a Paragon tier campaign and I'll be playing an Eladrin mage(enchanter) and he's picked Hypnotism as one of his at wills, and I just have a couple of questions regarding its use.

i) Can the attack part of the power be used to make a creature hit itself? Our DM has a tendency to go with solo's so this would be useful!

ii) When the monster attacks another creature of my choosing (including itself, if its possible), does it trigger any defenders marks/auras it maybe under?

Thank you

 

[Vadriar]

I played an Eladrin Enchanter mage too.

The answers are yes and yes.

Hypnotism forces the target to make an MBA against a creature you choose. Since you can target yourself with your attacks, you can have him hit himself.

Since the target is then making an attack that did not include your defender, he will get to hit him too. Do note, however, that the -2 mark penalty does apply for the attack the creature makes against itself! Also, this might disable the defender who might only be able to punish once per round. For this reason, it works best with defenders than punish more often, such as Paladins and Knights.

But in general, having an ogre hitting himself on the head with his club is really fun.

 

[Nilbog]

Thank you

I'm looking forward to the class, a lot of powers sound great fun! I love the thought of monsters hitting themselves, could lead to some memorable moments!

 

[tiornys]

The above is absolutely correct. However, I've seen multiple DMs balk at the idea of making a creature hit itself, and a few who balked at the idea of forced attacks triggering a defender mark. Before you start play, you might want to talk to your DM and make sure that he's not going to house-rule those uses of the power (and similar powers) out from under your character mid-combat.

t~

 

[SensoryThought]

RAW, yes to both, but I personally would say no to self attacks. I'd probably say yes to forced movement though instead of an attack to set themselves up for later.

While I like the power, the mechanics seem both too limited and not limited enough regarding the actual effect (hypnotism).

 

[Kynn]

Since the target is then making an attack that did not include your defender, he will get to hit him too. Do note, however, that the -2 mark penalty does apply for the attack the creature makes against itself! Also, this might disable the defender who might only be able to punish once per round. For this reason, it works best with defenders than punish more often, such as Paladins and Knights.

This is incorrect.

Note the description of their Battle Guardian power for the Knight:

Trigger: An enemy subject to your defender aura either shifts or makes an attack that targets an ally of yours but not you or an ally who has an active defender aura.

And the Righteous Radiance power for the Cavalier:

Trigger: An enemy subject to your defender aura either shifts or makes an attack that targets an ally of yours but not you or an ally who has an active defender aura.

Essentials-style defenders do NOT get a free attack/damage when an enemy hits itself or another enemy, only when they attack an ally.

It does work for weaponmaster fighters, as Combat Challenge says:

Effect: Whenever an enemy marked by you is adjacent to you and shifts or makes an attack that does not include you as a target, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy.

It also works for swordmages and wardens, but does not work for non-essentials paladins and for battleminds.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

Glad to get this question answered before my player's wizard starts getting ideas and makes me decide which way I feel about the RAW. Thanks guys.

Trit

 

[Uller]

I agree, raw hypnotism (and similar powers lime charm) can be used to cause a creature to attck itself. A dm would certainly be within his rights to house rule ikt and allow a save. Afterall, if you use it to cause a creature to move in a way that could damage it, it gets a save.

This came up for us yesterday. The party was fighting some stirges. It begs some questions: if a stirge is forced to attack itself and hits does it grab itself? If so does it take ongoing damage at the start of its next turn? RAW suggests yes.