D&D General Wizard vs Fighter - the math

[Ancalagon]

People often measure damage as a metric of PC performance because it's easy to measure, and it's easier to compare.

But the true power of casters - especially at higher levels, and especially for wizards - is not how much damage they can do. There is nothing special about damage. In 5e, a large group of ordinary archers can kill a dragon.

The true power of a caster is how much they can affect the plot. Say you have to go to the temple of doom to rescue the golden turnip (... it doesn't matter). The temple is a 4 weeks journey through a very dangerous jungle and time is of the essence!

The wizard says "no problem. Go shop for potions and stuff, and meet me back in 2 days". The party gathers again... and the wizard, following a few days of heavy divination, freaking teleports the party to the temple.

How much damage is that?!?

There are countless such possibilities.

 

[Stormonu]

But that is only a problem, when the wizard has spellslots to spare (so when the party has less battlerounds than spellslots).
When you have 18 or more battlerounds per long rest, the Wizard now has to choose between utility and combat efficiency. It is now a hard choice.
Of course if we have he 5 minute adventuring day, the Wizard can overpower alle three pillars of play.

And if the Wizard uses one utility spell to skip over half of those 18 combat rounds?

 

[payn]

People often measure damage as a metric of PC performance because it's easy to measure, and it's easier to compare.

But the true power of casters - especially at higher levels, and especially for wizards - is not how much damage they can do. There is nothing special about damage. In 5e, a large group of ordinary archers can kill a dragon.

The true power of a caster is how much they can affect the plot. Say you have to go to the temple of doom to rescue the golden turnip (... it doesn't matter). The temple is a 4 weeks journey through a very dangerous jungle and time is of the essence!

The wizard says "no problem. Go shop for potions and stuff, and meet me back in 2 days". The party gathers again... and the wizard, following a few days of heavy divination, freaking teleports the party to the temple.

How much damage is that?!?

There are countless such possibilities.

To be fair this is "fighter vs wizard; the math edition" thread. That's not to say what you point out isn't an issue, its just not relevant to the OP. What is being examined here is the adventuring day in encounters and how the two stack up.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

What is a battleground?

I think it is battleround, as in one round of combat (battle). So ideally you have 18 rounds of combat per this analysis. You can break that up basically how ever you want

 

[M_Natas]

And if the Wizard uses one utility spell to skip over half of those 18 combat rounds?

Except for banishment, which spells can completely, reliable (like on a save) do that?

 

[M_Natas]

I think it is battleround, as in one round of combat (battle). So ideally you have 18 rounds of combat per this analysis. You can break that up basically how ever you want

This. I'm typing on a phone, so autocorrect and misstyping are big enemies of mine, worse than Wizards!

 

[payn]

Except for banishment, which spells can completely, reliable (like on a save) do that?

One of the reasons I'm not a fan of high level play. You either build in a ton of encounters expecting some/many to be obviated, or you just allow one encounter a day which makes the wizard stronger.

 

[Stormonu]

Except for banishment, which spells can completely, reliable (like on a save) do that?

Teleport, Wizard Eye, Augury, (Improved) Invisibility, Disguise Self, Alter Self, Polymorph, Wall of Fire, Wall of Stone, Wall of Force, Forcecage, Passwall, Dimension Door, Fly, Levitate, Wish, Hold Person, Charm Person...

Need I go on?

 

[Oofta]

Except for banishment, which spells can completely, reliable (like on a save) do that?

Not to mention that they're likely changing Banishment so that the target gets a save every round. There are another handful of spells like Forcecage that can trap creatures which IMHO are even worse. It's easy enough to ban those handful of problematic spells if they're making the game unbalanced of course.

But the assumption is always that wizards (and the people who play them) are like Batman with the correct spell always prepared and the spell slot available to win the day. I've seen it once in a blue moon, but I've played multiple games to 20th level now and it's rare. On the rare occasions when it does work it's fantastic and everybody cheers. Different classes have different roles. I want to maintain that distinction.

 

[M_Natas]

Teleport, Wizard Eye, Augury, (Improved) Invisibility, Disguise Self, Alter Self, Polymorph, Wall of Fire, Wall of Stone, Passwall, Dimension Door, Fly, Levitate, Wish, Hold Person, Charm Person...

Need I go on?

Except for Wish, the fight is still there. You just circumvented the fight. The encounter is still there. Also if you plan short encounters, but a lot of then, that still costs the wizard spellslots while the other characters don't use up any ressources (like HP).
Also spells like greater Invisibility only affect one creature, so the rest still has to fight...
If an encounter is so easy it can be skipped with a lvl 1 spell (Disguise self) it was an easy encounter to begin with - which we should have twelve off .

If the Wizard player on your table does that regularly when you DM, you have to overstock on encounters the same way a DM needs to.overstock on treasure because not every treasure will be found.