Wizards of the Coast and Golden Age of Fantasy

[Thomas Percy]

This is all-time world-wide boxoffice result for movies:

1. Titanic (1997) $1,835,300,000
2. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) $1,129,219,252
3. Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006) $1,060,332,628
4. Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001) $968,657,891
5. Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) $922,379,000
6. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002) $921,600,000
7. Jurassic Park (1993) $919,700,000
8. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2005) $892,194,397
9. Shrek 2 (2004) $880,871,036
10. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (2002) $866,300,000

All boxoffice results are here

Looking at this chart, I have some conclusions:

1. Due to inflation US dollar at 2006 is not the same as US dollar at '90 or '80.
2. The target of present day cinema is: child, teenager and young adult (raised on computer and Playstation games) - the same target as WotC's. Each day there are more and more fantasy fans in the world because of World of Warcraft and similiar ways of children's education.
3. Present marketing is far more succesfull than '90 or older marketing.
4. Except "Titanic" romance all top10 movies are fantasy, S-F with elements of fantasy (Star Wars) or fantasy pastiche (Shrek). We are living in the golden age of fantasy. There is no success for cinema outside fantasy today.
5. WotC is world leader of fantasy "industry" progress. Our mother-company creates new rules, magic items, spells, classes - everything which will become Hollywood's bilion-dollar business after 5-10 years.
6. WotC is destined to be successful. 4e will be best selling game ever.

Do I forgot about something important?
Am I wrong?

 

[Steel_Wind]

And actually, if you look further down that list, from 11th to 30th, the majority of those films are SF/Fantasy too.

What this tells us, imo, is that the original Star Wars changed the market for movies 30 years ago - and nothing has happened to alter or reverse that course in any way. It says nothing about 4th edition though.

If you want to build a new market for tabletop RPGs? Figure out some way to convince JK Rowling to license the property for RPGs. THAT might have a long term effect.

This trend has been with us during the entire 30+ year run of D&D within popular culture. Nothing happened earlier from between 2000 to 2004 during LotR's dominance to especially key off those movie's success. If there really WAS an opportunity that was missed I'd call that a missed marketing opportunity on an epic scale. But I'm not sure the opportunity was ever there.

In fact, you could argue that given the clear popularity of fantasy and SF themes in the modern day, D&D's failure to deliver M:TG style sales speaks to a simple truth: fantasy is saleable, but big books of rules and odd looking dice where everyone talks about killing monsters with swords doesn't make the connection - and won't EVER make the connection in a mass market way.

Which means that LotR was not a missed opportunity. There WAS no opportunity and never will be.

WoW, otoh, is visual. That's the opportunity that made the connection. And that's why it succeeds in dollar terms greater than all of these movies, whereas D&D continues to be a niche market.

Nothing more is likely to emerge in the next ten years either, other than more Hollywood products and online games to capitalize on this appetite in the market.

If you want D&D to succeed? Make it visual. As long as it is a game that takes place in the player's imagination - it's a niche product.

Which sounds a lot like "if you want D&D to remain D&D - it won't ever succeed in the mass market". Which is demonstrably true, in my opinion.

11. Finding Nemo (2003) $865,000,000
12. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) $860,700,000
13. Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) $848,462,555
14. Independence Day (1996) $811,200,000
15. Spider-Man (2002) $806,700,000
16. Star Wars (1977) $797,900,000
17. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (2004) $789,458,727
18. Spider-Man 2 (2004) $783,577,893
19. The Lion King (1994) $783,400,000
20. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982) $756,700,000
21. The Da Vinci Code (2006) $749,536,138
22. The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005) $738,809,845
23. The Matrix Reloaded (2003) $735,600,000
24. Forrest Gump (1994) $679,400,000
25. The Sixth Sense (1999) $661,500,000
26. Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003) $653,200,000
27. Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002) $648,200,000
28. The Incredibles (2004) $624,037,578
29. Ice Age: The Meltdown (2006) $623,829,763
30. The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997) $614,300,000

 

[Khairn]

4. Except "Titanic" romance all top10 movies are fantasy, S-F with elements of fantasy (Star Wars) or fantasy pastiche (Shrek). We are living in the golden age of fantasy. There is no success for cinema outside fantasy today.
5. WotC is world leader of fantasy "industry" progress. Our mother-company creates new rules, magic items, spells, classes - everything which become Hollywood bilion-dollar business after 5-10 years.
6. WotC is destined to be successful. 4e will be best selling game ever.

Do I forgot about something important?
Am I wrong?

Up until the gigantic leap of "golden age of fantasy" I was with you all the way. After that .... 'meh.

#5 is really quite funny. Why is WotC the leader of the "fantasy" industry? How does the creation of the AoO's, Bag's of Holding, Fear and Mystic Theurges equate to a Billion $ business in Hollywood, when the last 2 D&D films were ... is "less than stellar" a good description?

Did you forget something important ? Maybe logic to tie any of this together?

Are you wrong? I think so, although you obviously don't. But then again its just your fantasy vs mine. Who knows ... you might be right?

 

[Thomas Percy]

#5 is really quite funny. Why is WotC the leader of the "fantasy" industry? How does the creation of the AoO's, Bag's of Holding, Fear and Mystic Theurges equate to a Billion $ business in Hollywood, when the last 2 D&D films were ... is "less than stellar" a good description?

We can judge WotC ideas as good or not. "D&D Movie" and some magic items are not excelent for all. I only think they (WotC) are profesionally in fantasy creating, they create it day by day for living, so even if they are ineffective, they have by statistics bigger chance then enyone else in the world of creating new things, which will become billion dollar business themes.

Consider Pirates of Carribean: Dead Man's Chest. A kraken is a creature of myths, but it lokks so similiar to every D&D player?

 

[Thomas Percy]

a simple truth: fantasy is saleable, but big books of rules and odd looking dice where everyone talks about killing monsters with swords doesn't make the connection - and won't EVER make the connection in a mass market way.

Maybe you're right. There can be a mistake in my thinkig, because I equalized ideas-creation and $ creation (future sales).

 

[ShadowDenizen]

There is no success for cinema outside fantasy today.

WOW!
I can see the point you're trying to make.
But, as a cinephile, I'll say that that's a REALLY broad (not to mention flawed!!)generalization.

I like the current top10 film list. But I also realize that just becase a movie doesn't make a BILLION DOLLARS, doesn't mean it's unsucessful. (How many millions of SPECTACLAR movies over the years haven't crested the $100 million mark?)

Not to mention the advertising budget; how many commercials, trailers, "HappyMeal" toys, etc, have you seen for those top 10 films? Think about that, and compare that to the number of ads you've seen for "Pan's Labyrionth" or "Hot Fuzz". Studios spend TONS of $$$ trying toi saturate the market so that people see certain films ("Blades of Glory", anyone? Or whatever-the-hell the last Adam Sandler move was?)

And there are plenty of fantasy films that "flop"; not because they're fantasy, but becase they're terrible! (D+D movies? Eragon?)

It's all about (or at least SHOULD be) the CONTENT and VISION of the film, not the genre!

I'm gonna get off my soapbox now, before I really start ranting....

 

[Ghendar]

There is no success for cinema outside fantasy today.

You're really reaching with this statement. No, let me rephrase that, you're wrong. Plenty of non fantasy movies are successful. Just because the movie doesn't reach 200 mil in gross doesn't necessarily mean that it's a flop.

 

[Thomas Percy]

Just because the movie doesn't reach 200 mil in gross doesn't necessarily mean that it's a flop.

Sure not . I'm talking about marketing success, which is the pinacle of WotC (and any other professional company) deeds.

 

[Celebrim]

I agree with this part.

We are living in the golden age of fantasy.

The rest, not so much or even at all.

I'll go further than you though. Almost all the important and enduring works of literature being created in any medium write now are fantasy because its pretty much only in that medium where serious people are working that are creating works that are not so tied to a moments politics, culture, and view point as to be of no real lasting value or interest to anyone decades hense from now. On the other hand, beginning with Tolkien and the Golden Age grandmasters of Sci-Fi we see the creation of art which reads just as fresh and interesting today as it did when it was first written and will continue to do so for many decades at the least. I do not think you can say that about any the 'high art' of the same period so lauded in the ivory tower academic and literary culture, most of which was never in the public view and will disappear long before it ever will be like so many unchecked out library books sold for a quarter and gathering dust in boxes in someone's closet.

 

[Reynard]

On My Big Fat Wish List:

Pirates of the Carribean -- the Official Dungeons and Dragons Setting