Wizards vs. Clerics

[Tristissima]

Here's a thought-
The Cleric casts more spells per day than the wizard, has better saving throws than the wizard, has more special abilities than a wizard (regarding domains and domain powers), is unrestricted by spell lists, and starts out proficient with more weapons than the wizard. With this in mind, why bother playing a wizard, especially when the sorcerer is around? True, the wizard has more damaging spells, starts with scribe scroll, gets a few metamagic feats at higher levels, and can gain a familiar, but does this really compensate? Another quick thought- wizards have the opportunity to become specialists, but lose an entire school of magic to gain a few extra spells per day.

Do you guys think the cleric is more powerful than the wizard? Why?
Has anyone seen alternate versions of the wizard or cleric, and if so, where can I find them?

 

[Dragongirl]

Well not the kind of reply you are going to want but . . .
For me, I play what I am in the mood to play, not what is the most powerful or what I can munchkin, etc. Wizards have been around forever and are in many many many novels, etc. They give a certain feel you won't recreate in clerics or even sorcerers.

 

[megamania]

You have to keep in mind one little thing.....

Clerics are on a mission for gawd

 

[KingOfChaos]

1. Cleric spells are extremely weak until around 4th level.
2. Clerics do not gain as many spells as a specialist wizard with a good intelligence. I do not play generalist wizards because of the fact that the maximum number of spells they gain is 4 in any level from class.
3. Clerics lack the mystic flavor that wizards hold for me and sorcerers..well, they're just wizards with less spell selection and more spells in my mind.

That's why I had rather play a wizard than a cleric or a sorcerer.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

However, you must consider the type of spells both have. Clerics arn't throwing shields and magic missles, much less dimension doors and fireballs or invisibilities and hastes. The cleric is a support charachter, their spells are less flashym and not likely to change a whole encounter.

However a cleric is more powerful than a wizard most of the time. This is not necessarily as the cleric dosn't steal glory or fun. Consider the following two encounters.

The party finds a group of orcish raiders. The powerful wizard immediatly casts haste, and proceeds to blast them all into nothingness before anyone else can act.

The party finds a group of orcish raiders. The fighters and cleric wade through them with a few buff spells. Then the cleric heals everyone else afterwards.

The power of the cleric is effectivly spread out through the whole party, while the wizard is essentially selfish.

 

[Oni]

I do think that clerics are more powerful than wizards, I think clerics are really more powerful than they ought to be but that is just my opinion.

Personally I prefer wizards though, because they are their own men, powerful, aspiring to be gods but not beholden to them. Wizards have a mystique about them simply by virtue of what they are and that is what makes them my favorite class.

 

[boothbey]

First off, I agree with Dragongirl. Play what you are in the mood to play, not what is the "powerclass"

After saying that...Wizards beat the cleric in damage spells and miscellaneous effects. Wizards trade the extra spells per day of a sorceror in exchange for near unlimited versatility.

Today a wizard can turn a small village into a smoking ruin. Tomorrow he can plunge into the realm of divination to uncover the secrets of the universe...or at least the secrets of whatever villain they are investigating.

The next day he can use spells to construct fortifications, etc etc etc...

Sorcerors pick their spells and are locked into whatever role they have chosen. I can't hardly talk any of my players into choosing sorceror. They all prefer wizards.

 

[Tristissima]

Spells- And a clarification

I disagree that cleric spells are less powerful. If anything they are more versatile. Defensive, offensive, miscellaneous, AND healing spells are all in the cleric's repetoire. Take Magical Stones fore example- a spell with a much higher damage possibility than any first level wizard spell. And if you have a cleric with something like the Fire domain, all of a sudden he has access to a lot of those highly damaging wizard spells.

 

[Victim]

Many wizard spells are more powerful and more interesting than cleric spells. In the first 3 spell levels, wizards get shield, haste, fly, invis, knock, etc. They have the full array of ability buffs and have level 2 invis counters. Clerics are better at fighting, but shield of faith is inferior to shield, searing light is worse than wizard evocations, etc. Even if the cleric uses domains to get some good wizard spells, they can't get all of them. While cleric spells get more interesting at higher levels (flamestrike is equal to similar wizard attacks), wizards get their own cool tricks.

While clerics get a few more spells than wizards, they also have other leeches - I mean teammates - sucking away their spells in the form of healing magic.

I think clerics and wizards are about equal. At least as long as the cleric isn't being completely selfish with his abilities.

EDIT: Magic Stone is junk. The Fire domain has such amazing offensive spells as burning hands, Icendiary Cloud, Wall of Fire, Fire Storm - which clerics get anyway. The best spells in there are Fire Shield - which is much better for melee combatants than wizards and the Sun domain grants it sooner - and Elemental Swarm.

 

[Oni]

While clerics get a few more spells than wizards, they also have other leeches - I mean teammates - sucking away their spells in the form of healing magic.

Problem is they where balanced assuming clerics would be played a certain way, and they are not always played that way.