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<blockquote data-quote="Graf" data-source="post: 2887522" data-attributes="member: 3087"><p>It’s a good flavorful class.</p><p>I haven’t looked at the dervish recently (but in an old game the twink player was gunning for it like no tomorrow so I think it’s probably on the high side of the power spectrum).</p><p></p><p>I realize that having a bab primary character who wears light armor is a disadvantage, and that you’ve packed it with lots of out of class skills to make it more punishing.</p><p></p><p>Having said that it’s got too many really good abilities that aren’t usually available together combined with best bab and high hit points.</p><p></p><p>You have </p><p>Best Bab</p><p>D10 hit points</p><p>4 skill points (equal to or better than every primary bab class I can think of except ranger with a skill list that is extraordinarily broad... diplomacy, all the hiding and spotting skills, survial and tumble?)</p><p>Better-than-Barbarian Barbarian fast movement (this doesn’t stack with barbarian does it?)</p><p>The main ability of a dervish</p><p>+ skirmish (which is really really good since, unlike sneak attack, you pick when you use the power)</p><p>take 10 on tumble (The 10th level rogue power) – very good because it means you never need to put more than 5 skill points in tumble</p><p>An incredible power at 10th level (is this a dervish power?)</p><p></p><p>(I don’t mind the augury power, since it would enhance role-playing, but its probably inappropriate in a melee oriented class that already has all these other abilities).</p><p></p><p>It looks too powerful to me and a lot of the limits are 1) non-standard (the books never have a “per encounter” restriction on powers) 2) not much of a limit (you can always run away from a fight, wait a minute and then come back and get all your super abilities back again) 3) The tumble check is a fixed DC and laughably easy (even without getting the ability to take . </p><p></p><p>Even if you can convince your DM to accept this class you need to plug some holes:</p><p>1. Does fast movement stack?</p><p>2. What’s an encounter? Is it any time you stop using initiative...? You face a new foe? (DnD usually uses more concrete limits like 1/day)</p><p>3. How does the Thousand Cuts power actually work…. Are the doubled attacks just doubles of your existing bab progression? It needs to be a bit clearer.</p><p></p><p>Personally, if I were your DM I’d make you use </p><p>secondary (rogue) bab</p><p>Blade Run on a per day basis, no to hit bonus (its how rage works)</p><p>Fast movement would probably be +5 at 5th and +10 at 10th </p><p>No taking 10 on tumble (it’s a very low set DC check with some levels, skill or stat enhancing items is automatic already… )</p><p>Maybe drop or limit the skirmish power to +2d6 max. At tenth level that’s still an extra (hypothetical) +12d6 of damage</p><p>Make you drop diplomacy, sense motive and gather info.... everybody wants their character to be good at everything but its waay too many.</p><p></p><p>If you want to keep bab primary I’d make you drop skirmish. Generally you’re either a rogue type and you get extra dice of damage or you’re a fighter type and you don’t. Especially since it seems like it would work with ranged attacks as well (and thus step on the toes of classes like scout).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Graf, post: 2887522, member: 3087"] It’s a good flavorful class. I haven’t looked at the dervish recently (but in an old game the twink player was gunning for it like no tomorrow so I think it’s probably on the high side of the power spectrum). I realize that having a bab primary character who wears light armor is a disadvantage, and that you’ve packed it with lots of out of class skills to make it more punishing. Having said that it’s got too many really good abilities that aren’t usually available together combined with best bab and high hit points. You have Best Bab D10 hit points 4 skill points (equal to or better than every primary bab class I can think of except ranger with a skill list that is extraordinarily broad... diplomacy, all the hiding and spotting skills, survial and tumble?) Better-than-Barbarian Barbarian fast movement (this doesn’t stack with barbarian does it?) The main ability of a dervish + skirmish (which is really really good since, unlike sneak attack, you pick when you use the power) take 10 on tumble (The 10th level rogue power) – very good because it means you never need to put more than 5 skill points in tumble An incredible power at 10th level (is this a dervish power?) (I don’t mind the augury power, since it would enhance role-playing, but its probably inappropriate in a melee oriented class that already has all these other abilities). It looks too powerful to me and a lot of the limits are 1) non-standard (the books never have a “per encounter” restriction on powers) 2) not much of a limit (you can always run away from a fight, wait a minute and then come back and get all your super abilities back again) 3) The tumble check is a fixed DC and laughably easy (even without getting the ability to take . Even if you can convince your DM to accept this class you need to plug some holes: 1. Does fast movement stack? 2. What’s an encounter? Is it any time you stop using initiative...? You face a new foe? (DnD usually uses more concrete limits like 1/day) 3. How does the Thousand Cuts power actually work…. Are the doubled attacks just doubles of your existing bab progression? It needs to be a bit clearer. Personally, if I were your DM I’d make you use secondary (rogue) bab Blade Run on a per day basis, no to hit bonus (its how rage works) Fast movement would probably be +5 at 5th and +10 at 10th No taking 10 on tumble (it’s a very low set DC check with some levels, skill or stat enhancing items is automatic already… ) Maybe drop or limit the skirmish power to +2d6 max. At tenth level that’s still an extra (hypothetical) +12d6 of damage Make you drop diplomacy, sense motive and gather info.... everybody wants their character to be good at everything but its waay too many. If you want to keep bab primary I’d make you drop skirmish. Generally you’re either a rogue type and you get extra dice of damage or you’re a fighter type and you don’t. Especially since it seems like it would work with ranged attacks as well (and thus step on the toes of classes like scout). [/QUOTE]
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