Wonderful, broken Simulacrum

[F5]

So, my wizard just picked up Simulacrum, and I'm just now exploring the horrible, horrible things I can do with this spell. Only one thing bugs me...I have no ranks in disguise, so any checks I make to create the likeness of the Simulacrum are untrained, straight CHA rolls.

My question is: can I take 20 on this roll? It's got a casting time of 12 hours, so it's fair to say you have enough time. There are no actual in-game penalties for failure, and the skill description allows you to Try Again; usually a good sign that it's possible to Take 20. On the other hand, you are casting the spell for those 12 hours, and it's fair to say that you are distracted. That, and the spell is powerful enough already.

Any thoughts?

 

[Rystil Arden]

So, my wizard just picked up Simulacrum, and I'm just now exploring the horrible, horrible things I can do with this spell. Only one thing bugs me...I have no ranks in disguise, so any checks I make to create the likeness of the Simulacrum are untrained, straight CHA rolls.

My question is: can I take 20 on this roll? It's got a casting time of 12 hours, so it's fair to say you have enough time. There are no actual in-game penalties for failure, and the skill description allows you to Try Again; usually a good sign that it's possible to Take 20. On the other hand, you are casting the spell for those 12 hours, and it's fair to say that you are distracted. That, and the spell is powerful enough already.

Any thoughts?

You cannot take 20 because you cannot try again without recasting the spell. Essentially, the reason you can try again with a Disguise kit is that you can wash off the make-up, remove the costume, and re-apply. However, when you are actually creating the construct out of snow and determining the likeness with Disguise, it is very similar to a Craft check (in fact, I might rule that you get synergy for being a sculptor) in that the spell and materials are wasted if you don't like the result and want to start over. Now, if you're willing to pay 20x the usual XP and cast the spell 20 times, then you can take 20 on the Disguise roll.

 

[F5]

Fair enough. That makes sense.

I'd argue that you COULD take 10 on the disguise roll, but without a skill to supplement the 10, I'd be better off just rollin' the bones and takin' my chances.

Thanks Rystil

 

[Rystil Arden]

Fair enough. That makes sense.

I'd argue that you COULD take 10 on the disguise roll, but without a skill to supplement the 10, I'd be better off just rollin' the bones and takin' my chances.

Thanks Rystil

I agree, you could probably take 10, since you aren't rushed, and there isn't some immediate danger of failure, seeing as it will just be used for an opposed roll later.

 

[Pielorinho]

Some related questions:
-Could someone with the disguise skill use the "aid another" action to give you a +2 on this check? In-game it makes sense that someoen could stand by and say, "No, there, deepen the wrinkles around her eyes!" and so forth to give you some assistance.
-Would being under the influence of any cha-affecting effects during part of the casting be beneficial? For example, could someone cast Eagle's Splendor on the wizard at a key moment to give him a bonus? Similarly, could someone cast Guidance on him at a key moment for a bonus?
-What would be a reasonable cost for a one-shot magic item that gave a disguise check bonus for use in the creation of a simulacrum? Would 1,000 gold for a +5 competence bonus be reasonable?

Daniel

 

[JimAde]

These are just my opinions, of course:

Some related questions:
-Could someone with the disguise skill use the "aid another" action to give you a +2 on this check? In-game it makes sense that someoen could stand by and say, "No, there, deepen the wrinkles around her eyes!" and so forth to give you some assistance.

I'd say yes. It's a skill roll, so why not? They would have to be present for the whole casting, though. Just as two casters collaborating on creating a magic item must both be present for the whole process.

-Would being under the influence of any cha-affecting effects during part of the casting be beneficial? For example, could someone cast Eagle's Splendor on the wizard at a key moment to give him a bonus? Similarly, could someone cast Guidance on him at a key moment for a bonus?

As above, I'd say the effect would have to apply for the whole casting. Generally that seems to be how it works for enhancers.

-What would be a reasonable cost for a one-shot magic item that gave a disguise check bonus for use in the creation of a simulacrum? Would 1,000 gold for a +5 competence bonus be reasonable?

Daniel

I have no idea.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

-What would be a reasonable cost for a one-shot magic item that gave a disguise check bonus for use in the creation of a simulacrum? Would 1,000 gold for a +5 competence bonus be reasonable?

Get a potion of disguise self for 50 gp. Give it to the simulacrum.

If you need it to last longer and have the money, get a hat of disguise. Give it to the simulacrum.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

1,000gp for a one-shot +5 competence bonus is probably too high.

You can get a permanent +5 competence bonus for roughly 5^2*100 = 2,500, disregarding, for the moment, dcollins-like objections.

Moreover:

Elixir of Swimming: This elixir bestows swimming ability. An almost imperceptible magic sheath surrounds the drinker, allowing him to glide through the water easily (+10 competence bonus on Swim checks for 1 hour).

Faint illusion; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must have 5 ranks in the Swim skill; Price 250 gp.

This is a one-shot +10 bonus (and so should be exponentially more expensive). Moreover, it applies to any use of the swim skill, rather than the limited application your proposed one-shot device would have.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Get a potion of disguise self for 50 gp. Give it to the simulacrum.

If you need it to last longer and have the money, get a hat of disguise. Give it to the simulacrum.

By the time you can cast Simulacrum, putting Disguise Self on something is asking to have it detected as a fake. That said, I agree with Patryn on his analysis (which is good for the caster considering how much a simulacrum costs in and of itself, 100 gp per HD). Here's my take on an item:

Ice of Deception: Found deep within the reaches of the Proteus glacier on the Paraelemental Plane of Ice, this strange material is particularly malleable and susceptible to taking on characteristics from the mental impressions left upon it by anyone touching it. When refined by a wizard with the appopriate skills and used in the creation of a simulacrum, this special ice grants a +10 competence bonus to the caster's Disguise check for making the Simulacrum a realistic duplicate. Although this ice is rare and expensive (about 3200 gp per pound), it takes but an ounce of it to aid in the creation of a single simulacrum.

Faint transmutation; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must have special tools to refine this Paraelemental Ice; Price 200 gp.

 

[F5]

Rather than an item, I was thinking of researching a spell...+10 insight bonus on any one skill, 12-hour duration. This will prove much more useful in future than a one-shot item, or even a permanent item keyed to Disguise. Such a spell may already exist somewhere, but I can't think of anything Core.

Since the Simulacrum spell describes the requirement as a straight skill roll, I'd assume that anything that could enhance a normal Disguise check will help the check made for a simulacrum. Aid Another would help, but I agree the "other" would have to be there for the whole process. Masterwork sculpting toolsor a masterwork disguise kit might work for a +2 bonus, as well. Stuff like the Skill Focus feat would apply, too, but are hardly worth taking for this reason alone.

So that gives us +2 for having help, +2 for masterwork tools, let's throw in a Persistant Eagle's Spleandor for another +2. If I can get away with the +10 spell or item, that's a +16 to my disguise check, with no CHA bonus or skill ranks. That's not shabby at all, and would be more than enough to fool a casual observer.

Any other tricky ways to tack on a bonus to that disguise roll?