Working on a new base class (ToB, Bo9S style)

[Zachariah]

Hey guys,

Currently im working on a new base class (actually 2 BC and 1 PrC, more about those in the future) for one of the players who will be playing in my soon to start campaign.
The class is called the Master of Blades, which might change because its a bit of a cheap name. Anyway, back to the point. About the theme of the class first. The Master of Blades is all about mastery of two-sword fighting, about perfect balance and synchronization between his swords and himself. As a monk pursues personal perfection, the Master of Blades pursues the perfection of two weapon fighting. The class can be seen as a monk who changes his ideal of perfection, or something in that direction.

Ok, now I am working on implementing these ideas into a balanced base class. But before that I would like to note that I am new to DM'ing, and don’t have allot of experience in actually playing the game either. Although I did studied a lot of the D&D books extensively, since that’s the only thing I can go on, relativating with written material. You might say, why don’t you start of going with the core stuff or something. But I really like making my own things. The reason that I post this is that I found these forums very helpful, insightful and rich on experienced D&D players. So, in short, for advice ^^

The Master of Blades. First ill go over the basics:

HD: d8 or d10. < not sure yet, any advice is appreciated
BAB: Full (Fighter)
Saves: Having a hard time on this one as well. The class is about mental discipline, and agility. So that would put it to High Fort and Will. Plus maybe the battle clarity (Ex) level 3 ability of the Warblade, but based on wisdom. Any constructed opinion on this is welcome.
Alignment: Any Lawful.
Skills: As monk.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Only with swords. No armor.
Maneavers known/prepared is same as warblade.

Special (so far):
He may use a one handed sword in his offhand without the extra -2 attack penalty on offhand.
He starts with two weapon focus and two weapon block feats (ability called Synchronized sword style). At level 6, 11 and 16 this increases by one step each.
As noted before, Battle Clarity at lvl 3, Deflect Arrows on lvl 5.
Stance Mastery on level 20.

___________
The Master of Blades makes use of Martial Disciplines (Blade magic). He gains access to two of the following three disciplines, which two depends on his alignment:
Cleansing Swords (Good) < Is most like Devoted Spirit
Balanced Blades (Any) < Is most like Diamond Mind, has some enhanced blade strikes and
Law effects.
Cursed Fangs (Evil) < Somewhere between Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand
A neutral MoB chooses in the beginning if he will go with Cleansing Swords or Cursed Fangs.

Some of the martial maneuvers I made of which I have a hard time deciding the maneuver level, please give your opinion on what level they should be, or if they are to overpowered, suggestions for changes are more than welcome.

True strike – Strike – Balanced Blades
As the ability, a +20 on a roll. I currently have it on rank 2.

Bloodsoaker – stance – Cursed Fangs
Each time you deal damage during a turn, you get a +1 vile bonus damage on attacks that lasts until the end of the encounter, or you leave this stance. It can trigger multiple times and its effects stack. Currently on rank 1.

Darksoul Fang – Strike – Cursed Fangs
As part of this maneuver you make a ranged touch attack. If it hits, your opponent takes 8d6 points of damage. In addition, he must make a successful Will save ( DC 17 + your Wis modifier) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds. This maneuver is a supernatural ability. I currently have it on rank 7.

Blade of Overpowering Evil – Strike – Cursed Fangs
If your target is non-evil, you gain a +8 bonus on your attack. If this attack hits, it deals an extra 6d8 points of damage and you become under the effect of the Unholy Aura spell for one round, the aura effects only you. In addition, the target must make a successful Fortitude save ( DC 18 + your Wis modifier) or be knocked prone. I currently have it on rank 8.

Equilibrium – Stance – Balanced Blades
Whenever you use one of your strikes you may make an offhand attack with your highest attack modifier. You may choose in what order you do the normal attack and the strike, but you must do so before rolling. I currently have it on rank 5.

_________
Well thats it so far. Im going to run an evil campaign so thats why im working on finishing the neutral/evil side first. So anyone some feedback?

Gratz,
Zack

 

[Arkhandus]

First, welcome to the boards! Second, just keep in mind that the HR forum is slower and smaller in traffic than the General or D&D Rules forums, so responses here tend to be slower/more infrequent.

Also, for reference I'm pretty blunt, so don't take any of my comments to be disparaging, just blunt questions/comments on each point.

Also, you should probably post your custom maneuvers etc. and seek aid/criticism for them from the community, to catch any errors, potential broken stuff, unclear points, or underpowered stuff.

Hey guys,

Currently im working on a new base class (actually 2 BC and 1 PrC, more about those in the future) for one of the players who will be playing in my soon to start campaign.
The class is called the Master of Blades, which might change because its a bit of a cheap name.

Name possibility: Nitoudan, Nitendan, Nitensei, or Nitousei. Or just Blademaster, Honorblade, Kensei, or maybe Dualist (as a play on Duelist).

HD: d8 or d10. < not sure yet, any advice is appreciated
BAB: Full (Fighter)
Saves: Having a hard time on this one as well. The class is about mental discipline, and agility. So that would put it to High Fort and Will. Plus maybe the battle clarity (Ex) level 3 ability of the Warblade, but based on wisdom. Any constructed opinion on this is welcome.
Alignment: Any Lawful.
Skills: As monk.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Only with swords. No armor.
Maneavers known/prepared is same as warblade.

Special (so far):
He may use a one handed sword in his offhand without the extra -2 attack penalty on offhand.
He starts with two weapon focus and two weapon block feats (ability called Synchronized sword style). At level 6, 11 and 16 this increases by one step each.
As noted before, Battle Clarity at lvl 3, Deflect Arrows on lvl 5.
Stance Mastery on level 20.

I don't know how you conclude that a focus on agility and mental focus has anything to do with Fortitude..... So high Reflex and high Will should be the saves.

Hit dice seem like they should be d8s, since it isn't about pure physical development like the Warblade or inexorable zealotry like the Crusader.

Don't copy the Warblade's battle clarity; each Bo9S class is supposed to be distinctly different in its approach and style, and unlike common abilities (Evasion or whatnot), that's something rather specific to the Warblade's training and skills.

Proficiency needs to be clarified. Is it proficiency in all swords? That alone wouldn't be very specific, and could lead to debate about whether certain weapons are swords or not (since not all of them have the word Sword in their name). Specify! Like "A Master of Blades is proficient in short swords, longswords, rapiers, scimitars, falchions, greatswords, bastard swords, and two-bladed swords. They are not proficient in armor or shields."


You need to clarify the off-hand sword thing, and it should be a named ability (Two Blade Style or somesuch). Do you mean "A Master of Blades reduces the penalty on attack rolls for two-weapon fighting by 2 points, when he or she wields a one-handed weapon in the off-hand, not a light weapon. This only applies when the off-hand weapon is one listed among the proficiencies of this class."

Is the class going to have automatic Two-Weapon Fighting or something, or will it just be expected that the character spends a normal feat on that?

Also: what the heck is 'two weapon focus' and 'two weapon block'? Do you mean to say the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and the Two-Weapon Defense feat? Also, what the heck do you mean by 'At level 6, 11 and 16 this increases by one step each'?? There is nothing in the core rules that would explain that, so you have to explain what you mean.

As I mentioned earlier, remove Battle Clarity, and also Stance Mastery. Go with unique stuff instead! Or at least stuff taken from non-martial adept classes, that hasn't been represented amongst them yet. I suppose it would make some sense for the class to gain Evasion and Improved Evasion at some point. Anyway....

Give them the same AC bonuses as a Monk, starting at 1st-level (and label it simply "AC Bonus" in name, noting that the ability doesn't stack; so a Monk/Swordsage/Master of Blades still only gets the bonuses once regardless of how many classes grant the same ability).


I'd recommend moving any class features besides the 1st-level ones to be put at even-numbered levels, as the class will already be at its most-powerful on odd-numbered levels; it'll be gaining access to a new level of maneuvers at odd levels; 1st-level maneuvers at 1st, 2nd-level maneuvers at 3rd, 3rd-level maneuvers at 5th, 4th-level maneuvers at 7th, etc., up until 17th-level.

19th is the only odd-numbered class level that they won't get a new level of maneuvers from, so that is the only odd-numbered level (besides 1st) that might deserve a special ability. So move the TWF benefits you already mentioned (but have yet to specify) to levels 6, 12, and 18 probably (or 8, 14, and 18 perhaps).

Lessee....besides that stuff.... Maybe they get an ability at 4th called "Deceptive Blades" that allows them to feint in combat with the Bluff skill as a move-equivalent action, but using Wisdom as the key ability for the check instead of Charisma, and only useable when wielding two swords or a two-bladed sword, using the off-hand sword to distract an opponent, and limited to only attacking with the primary-hand sword when doing that (if using a two-bladed sword, it still counts as a two-handed weapon for that attack). Add Bluff to their class skill list as appropriate. Since feinting in combat isn't great in its chance of success sometimes (note that opponents add their Base Attack Bonus to their Sense Motive check to resist a feint in combat), maybe add double their Wisdom modifier instead of just 1x their Wis mod for these feint attempts.


The 20th-level ability could be "Double Strike Mastery (Ex): At 20th-level onward, a Master of Blades may use both of his swords to great effect when initiating a martial Strike. Whenever he or she uses a Strike maneuver of 6th-level or lower that involves a single attack with one melee weapon, he or she may make a second attack with that maneuver that duplicates the same Strike. However, the first attack with that Strike must use the primary hand weapon, while the second attack must use the off-hand weapon, and these must both be weapons listed among the proficiencies of this class. Both attacks may have different targets, if desired. A Master of Blades suffers the usual penalties for two-weapon fighting when he or she uses this ability. Double Strike Mastery is an extraordinary ability." I'm not sure yet if the highest level of maneuver useable with it should be 5th or 6th.

Only other thing I'd suggest is an ability at some middle or high level (one where they don't already get a special ability/increase, nor access to a new level of maneuvers), to attack with two swords as a standard action but not as much as they could with a full-attack. Say "Two Bladed Blitz (Ex): The Master of Blades, at XXth-level, may attack with two swords when he or she attacks as a standard action, or when attacking with the Spring Attack feat. To do so, he or she attacks once with the primary hand and once with the off-hand, suffering the usual penalties for two-weapon fighting as appropriate. These attacks may be directed against different targets, but if using Spring Attack, you must make the attacks at the same point during your movement. Two-Bladed Blitz is an extraordinary ability."

I'm not sure yet how balanced it would be overall, but with the d8 hit dice it will probably be fine. Can't be sure until the class is finished and can be compared on-whole with the existing 3 martial adept base classes.

The Master of Blades makes use of Martial Disciplines (Blade magic). He gains access to two of the following three disciplines, which two depends on his alignment:
Cleansing Swords (Good) < Is most like Devoted Spirit
Balanced Blades (Any) < Is most like Diamond Mind, has some enhanced blade strikes and
Law effects.
Cursed Fangs (Evil) < Somewhere between Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand
A neutral MoB chooses in the beginning if he will go with Cleansing Swords or Cursed Fangs.

Something to note, you may need to specify that only good-aligned Masters of Blades can choose to learn from (and use) the Cleansing Swords discipline, and only evil-aligned Masters of Blades can choose to learn from (and use) the Cursed Fangs discipline. Maybe also mention that anyone who attempts to learn maneuvers from those disciplines otherwise, such as through the Martial Stance or Martial Study feats or through prestige classes, must also share the discipline's alignment in order to learn or use them.

Any particular reason that they don't have any REAL choice? It seems to be a forced choice of either a goodly path or an evil path, which doesn't make much sense since the class is capable of being (lawful) neutral. As this isn't like the Crusader in theme, shouldn't there be an option for strictly following the 'path of True Honor' by itself?

In other words, at least one other discipline/school that isn't focused on good or evil. The Lawful effects used in Balanced Blades may be better off if moved into this other discipline, since the name Balanced Blades is a bit deceptive when it includes a particular alignment among its focus.

"Stalwart Honor," "Honorable Storm," "Sword Storm," or "Storm Blades" discipline perhaps, or whatever. Something like a mix of Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, and Setting Sun or Desert Wind......I dunno. Depends on what kind of techniques aren't already covered by your 3 existing disciplines for the Master of Blades. It could either be something like a mix of SD/IH and new stuff in style, or a mix of SS/DW and new stuff in style. For reference, the acid, electricity, and sonic energy types are currently unrepresented in Book of Nine Swords, far as I can recall, while cold is only partly represented in Shadow Hand, and fire is heavily represented in Desert Wind.

Some of the martial maneuvers I made of which I have a hard time deciding the maneuver level, please give your opinion on what level they should be, or if they are to overpowered, suggestions for changes are more than welcome.

True strike – Strike – Balanced Blades
As the ability, a +20 on a roll. I currently have it on rank 2.

It's more effective as a maneuver than it is as a spell, since spellcasters that have it don't have a full base attack bonus and don't have use for Power Attack or Combat Expertise as a result. Also, it's an ability that's rather useful to have in every battle. I'd rate it as a level 3 or level 4 maneuver at least, depending on how you have it. Standard action Strike? Level 3 I'd guess. (power attack for -20 to-hit and +40 damage, or -10/+20 at middle levels (and still getting +10 to-hit from the True Strike), using a two-bladed sword or greatsword as a two-handed weapon? yes please!)

For comparison's sake, note that the 2nd-level Diamond Mind strike named Emerald Razor just makes a single attack as a touch attack (IIRC; that or it treated the opponent as flat-footed). That's pretty useful, but +20 on the attack roll is more frequently helpful (like against rogues, monks, wraiths, shadows, etc. whose touch ACs are more or less the same as their normal ACs). Also, will your ability include the True Strike spell's benefit of ignoring cover or concealment (I forget which)?

Bloodsoaker – stance – Cursed Fangs
Each time you deal damage during a turn, you get a +1 vile bonus damage on attacks that lasts until the end of the encounter, or you leave this stance. It can trigger multiple times and its effects stack. Currently on rank 1.

Needs better wording. I'm not quite sure, but it might warrant level 2 or 3 instead of level 1, depending. I'm not familiar with 'vile damage' except knowing that it comes from the BoVD and has some kind of special effect. Also, this stance should probably only apply with melee attacks (would be awesomely broken to use with Rapid Shot and a ranged weapon from a safe vantage point, despite spending a feat or level on gaining proficiency in a suitable ranged weapon).

Darksoul Fang – Strike – Cursed Fangs
As part of this maneuver you make a ranged touch attack. If it hits, your opponent takes 8d6 points of damage. In addition, he must make a successful Will save ( DC 17 + your Wis modifier) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds. This maneuver is a supernatural ability. I currently have it on rank 7.

....You do realize that this needs a range specified, right? You also need to specify if it functions only against creatures, or against objects as well. Furthermore, if it renders the foe shaken on a failed save, it should be noted that it counts as a mind-affecting fear effect, or at least note that the shaken effect is such. Might also need to be specified as a necromancy effect or enchantment effect, depending on how it functions flavor-wise. 7th-level might be fine, I'm not sure cuz I can't remember the specifics of the few existing ranged-attack maneuvers from Desert Wind and Shadow Hand.

Blade of Overpowering Evil – Strike – Cursed Fangs
If your target is non-evil, you gain a +8 bonus on your attack. If this attack hits, it deals an extra 6d8 points of damage and you become under the effect of the Unholy Aura spell for one round, the aura effects only you. In addition, the target must make a successful Fortitude save ( DC 18 + your Wis modifier) or be knocked prone. I currently have it on rank 8.

Need to specify that this involves a melee attack. Wording/spelling/grammar also needs a bit of tweaking (frex, 'you become under the effect of the Unholy Aura spell for one round, the aura effects only you.' should be worded 'you are affected by an Unholy Aura. This functions as per the spell, cast by a cleric of the same caster level as your initiator level, except the Unholy Aura affects targets only you, lasts only 1 round, and its Fortitude save DC is based on this maneuver's level and your Wisdom modifier.' The last section should say "In addition, the target you have stricken with Blade of Overpowering Evil is knocked prone unless he or she succeeds at a Fortitude save (DC = 18 + your Wisdom modifier)."

I'm not sure if the maneuver should be level 8 or level 9; although it's shorter-lasting than Unholy Aura normally is, it has three significant, immediate benefits, which can be more important than a longer-lasting defense.

Equilibrium – Stance – Balanced Blades
Whenever you use one of your strikes you may make an offhand attack with your highest attack modifier. You may choose in what order you do the normal attack and the strike, but you must do so before rolling. I currently have it on rank 5.

First, note that 'strikes' should be 'Strikes' or 'Strike maneuvers' for clarity's sake. Second, you should note it is a 'normal off-hand attack' so as not to get people confused that about whether or not it is a duplication of the Strike maneuver. Third, the attack thing should be 'with your highest Base Attack Bonus.'

Fourth, you need to specify if two-weapon fighting penalties apply or not, and whether or not this only applies when your Strike uses the primary-hand weapon, and whether or not the primary-hand weapon has to be made as though it were one-handed (since it could be a two-bladed sword or the like, which can be used as a two-handed weapon for more damage when not using it specifically as a double weapon).

Fifth, the whole rolling part doesn't make sense; just say "You may make this off-hand attack either before or after the Strike maneuver, but you must make the decision whether or not to use this off-hand attack at the same time that you decide to use that particular Strike." Though I'm not sure if it's even necessary. I dunno if level 5 is appropriate or not for the stance, but it seems alright....may be more appropriate at level 4 or something but I dunno.

 

[Zachariah]

Thanks Arkhandus, for the welcome and the great amount of feedback! It was very useful. Didnt really experience it as blund, just straight to the point. In my case a rather appreciated way of receiving feedback. So no probs.
I have been away for some days so my reply time wasn’t that fast either.

I have to say, my post was a bit of a mess. Posted it very late in the night, and it contains some errors. Which I noted when reading through your comments. It’s a shame really, I have the class partly described in a word .doc, which is a lot clearer then the post. But I didn’t have it at hand when I made the post.

Also, I want to note that im a bit short on time. Im planning on starting the campaign soon, and nothing from the Bo9S will be used. Except for the thinks I picked out for the sake of creating this class. So I just copy some maneuvers from other schools, and rename them, tweak them a bit. It takes a lot of time (for me at least) to make all the maneuvers required for a school. And some excising ones just fit in great with what I have in mind for this class.

Now back to the class stuff. I Decided to simply call it Blademaster. I'll walk through your comments and give my view/opinion.

I don't know how you conclude that a focus on agility and mental focus has anything to do with Fortitude..... So high Reflex and high Will should be the saves.

Hit dice seem like they should be d8s, since it isn't about pure physical development like the Warblade or inexorable zealotry like the Crusader.

Actually I dont conclude that. Like I said, the Blademaster is a class much like the monk. He is physically competent, with an agile but strong body and mentally well trained. The thing is, if I follow that concept, it ends up with all saves high. Which may be to much for this class. If I must drop one, then it will be probably be Fort.

Hit Dice: 1d8, this seems right to me as well

Don't copy the Warblade's battle clarity; each Bo9S class is supposed to be distinctly different in its approach and style, and unlike common abilities (Evasion or whatnot), that's something rather specific to the Warblade's training and skills.

True, I prefer not to. The thing is that creating such a class takes a lot of time, and my campaign is starting soon. I still need to prepare some campaign stuff as well. Plus the description of the ability fits the class very well. The blademaster mental discipline is made for battle, at some point it seems right that his wisdom modifier (battle intuition) adds up besides the regular Armor Bonus (Ex). (forgot to mention that he has the armor bonus as the monk)

No he is not proficient with all the swords. Im currently working on a list. So far it contains: Long Sword, Bastard Sword (yeah he will need to pick the exotic weapon feat for this), katana. More will be added. Maybe ill put in only katana like weapons (asian swords), seems to fit the theme better IMO. But that might be to limited. So as for now that’s it.

You need to clarify the off-hand sword thing, and it should be a named ability (Two Blade Style or somesuch). Do you mean "A Master of Blades reduces the penalty on attack rolls for two-weapon fighting by 2 points, when he or she wields a one-handed weapon in the off-hand, not a light weapon. This only applies when the off-hand weapon is one listed among the proficiencies of this class."

Ok, fair enough. This is how it is described.
Blade Synchronization (Ex): A Master of Blades is able to synchronize his blades, unlocking his full potential when in battle. When the Master of Blades is wielding two identical blades, from his class proficiency list, he doesn’t receive the –2 penalty to his off-hand attack, for not using a light off-hand weapon.

Yeah the “two weapon focus” and “two weapon block” are suppose to be Two-weapon fighting and Two-weapon Defense. My bad. This is what I meant:
He starts with an ability called Dual Blade Mastery (Ex). The Blademaster’s mainhand BAB also automatically apply to his offhand. So his mainhand and Off-hand attacks are the sam. In addition, it grants an Armor Bonus equal to the number of main hand attacks he can make. The penalty for fighting with two weapons still applies (the –2 to all attacks). So, for example a level 3 Blademaster would have the following attacks: +3 Main / +3 Off , and the –2 to both for dual wielding, but that calculated lose from his BAB.
Essentially this ability is the same as granting the following feats at the given levels:
Lvl 1: Two-weapon fighting and Two-weapon Defense
Lvl 6: Improved Two-weapon fighting and improved two-weapon defense
Lvl 11: Greater Two-weapon fighting and Greater Two-weapon Defense (from Complete Warrior)
Lvl 16: Perfect Two-weapon fighting and Perfect Two-weapon Defense (Epic..?)
That’s what I meant by “At level 6, 11 and 16 this increases by one step each”.

Note that this ability is only in effect when wielding two swords of the same type and not wearing armor. The defense part is this class his equivalent to the monks +Armor. It might still be an option to spread out the defense and offence gain to decrease the jumps in power. For example: Dual Blade Offence and Dual Blade Defense. Keeping the offence on 1, 6,11 and 16 since this is an offensive class. The defense 2 or 3 levels later. What do you think?
Another thing is that I was thinking of making his Attack roll bonus, which is normally based on STR, based on his DEX modifier. As with Ambidexterity. Because normally the Two-weapon fighting feats require a lot of dex. This way the player needs to focus more on dex aswell. His damage bonus still goes on STR. I think it fits this class well.

As I mentioned earlier, remove Battle Clarity, and also Stance Mastery. Go with unique stuff instead! Or at least stuff taken from non-martial adept classes, that hasn't been represented amongst them yet. I suppose it would make some sense for the class to gain Evasion and Improved Evasion at some point. Anyway....

I was thinking of giving him the deflect arrow feat, I read about somewhere, cant recall where though. As it makes sense that he can deflect them with is blade skills. Reflex safe against ranged attacks for half damage or something. Improved for no damage?

Give them the same AC bonuses as a Monk, starting at 1st-level (and label it simply "AC Bonus" in name, noting that the ability doesn't stack; so a Monk/Swordsage/Master of Blades still only gets the bonuses once regardless of how many classes grant the same ability).

Done so, forgot to mention it in my post. Added the anti-stacking stuff.

I'd recommend moving any class features besides the 1st-level ones to be put at even-numbered levels, as the class will already be at its most-powerful on odd-numbered levels; it'll be gaining access to a new level of maneuvers at odd levels; 1st-level maneuvers at 1st, 2nd-level maneuvers at 3rd, 3rd-level maneuvers at 5th, 4th-level maneuvers at 7th, etc., up until 17th-level.

Good point. Ill keep that in mind. But the class is about weapon balance and offense, so that’s why I keep the offhand attack on those levels. As I suggested before, maybe a split up.

Lessee....besides that stuff.... Maybe they get an ability at 4th called "Deceptive Blades" that allows them to feint in combat with the Bluff skill as a move-equivalent action, but using Wisdom as the key ability for the check instead of Charisma, and only useable when wielding two swords or a two-bladed sword, using the off-hand sword to distract an opponent, and limited to only attacking with the primary-hand sword when doing that (if using a two-bladed sword, it still counts as a two-handed weapon for that attack). Add Bluff to their class skill list as appropriate. Since feinting in combat isn't great in its chance of success sometimes (note that opponents add their Base Attack Bonus to their Sense Motive check to resist a feint in combat), maybe add double their Wisdom modifier instead of just 1x their Wis mod for these feint attempts.

*Starts to look up wtf the feint mechanic is…. Finds nothing in DM Guide or PM* Sounds cool, but what does feint do?

The 20th-level ability could be "Double Strike Mastery (Ex): At 20th-level onward, a Master of Blades may use both of his swords to great effect when initiating a martial Strike. Whenever he or she uses a Strike maneuver of 6th-level or lower that involves a single attack with one melee weapon, he or she may make a second attack with that maneuver that duplicates the same Strike. However, the first attack with that Strike must use the primary hand weapon, while the second attack must use the off-hand weapon, and these must both be weapons listed among the proficiencies of this class. Both attacks may have different targets, if desired. A Master of Blades suffers the usual penalties for two-weapon fighting when he or she uses this ability. Double Strike Mastery is an extraordinary ability." I'm not sure yet if the highest level of maneuver useable with it should be 5th or 6th.

These Ideas I like. Sounds cool. I had the same idea for a stance, but thought it might be to strong. In the end it resulted in the Equilibrium stance. The max level prolly needs to roll out of play testing.

The Two Blade Blitz fits the theme as well. I totally forgot about that combat mechanic, being only able to make a single attack. Nice suggestion, ill use it. The level im not sure of yet.

Any particular reason that they don't have any REAL choice? It seems to be a forced choice of either a goodly path or an evil path, which doesn't make much sense since the class is capable of being (lawful) neutral. As this isn't like the Crusader in theme, shouldn't there be an option for strictly following the 'path of True Honor' by itself?

The reason behind it is that the Blademaster makes use of Ki energy to initiate/power his martial moves. As far as I know Ki is spiritual energy, something drawn from the soul. So a good Blademaster generates positive Ki and a evil negative. The maneuvers function on that specific Ki. But yes, as you mentioned, lawful neutral is also an option. To keep it simple I just gave that class a choice between Cleansing Swords or Cursed Fangs. You do realize that Balanced Blades is available to all blademasters, its not alignment restricted. It is the neutral ground for all blademasters.

In other words, at least one other discipline/school that isn't focused on good or evil. The Lawful effects used in Balanced Blades may be better off if moved into this other discipline, since the name Balanced Blades is a bit deceptive when it includes a particular alignment among its focus.

"Stalwart Honor," "Honorable Storm," "Sword Storm," or "Storm Blades" discipline perhaps, or whatever. Something like a mix of Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, and Setting Sun or Desert Wind......I dunno. Depends on what kind of techniques aren't already covered by your 3 existing disciplines for the Master of Blades. It could either be something like a mix of SD/IH and new stuff in style, or a mix of SS/DW and new stuff in style. For reference, the acid, electricity, and sonic energy types are currently unrepresented in Book of Nine Swords, far as I can recall, while cold is only partly represented in Shadow Hand, and fire is heavily represented in Desert Wind.

I prefer to stay away from most elemental skills. Because he doesn’t have any theme connection with it, as a Ki user and not a magic user. Wind may be possible though, using sonic as energy type (as sound is result of vibrations and movement in/of air). Slicing the air that he creates gust or cutting effects. But that’s rather neutral and fits just as well into Balanced Blades.
__________________________________

One important thing to know is, In order for the Blademaster to initiate his maneuvers from his disciplines he must wield two swords of the same type, and wear no armor or shield.

It's more effective as a maneuver than it is as a spell, since spellcasters that have it don't have a full base attack bonus and don't have use for Power Attack or Combat Expertise as a result. Also, it's an ability that's rather useful to have in every battle. I'd rate it as a level 3 or level 4 maneuver at least, depending on how you have it. Standard action Strike? Level 3 I'd guess. (power attack for -20 to-hit and +40 damage, or -10/+20 at middle levels (and still getting +10 to-hit from the True Strike), using a two-bladed sword or greatsword as a two-handed weapon? yes please!)

Yeah it is more effective for sure. It is a standard action strike. Can you combine maneuvers with power attack? Because in that case this might be a bit to powerful early?

Moved to level 3 for now.

Needs better wording. I'm not quite sure, but it might warrant level 2 or 3 instead of level 1, depending. I'm not familiar with 'vile damage' except knowing that it comes from the BoVD and has some kind of special effect. Also, this stance should probably only apply with melee attacks (would be awesomely broken to use with Rapid Shot and a ranged weapon from a safe vantage point, despite spending a feat or level on gaining proficiency in a suitable ranged weapon).

“Vile damage can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell.” So its pretty powerful. Maybe a bit too much for the function of this ability. With the current given information about the requirements for performing a maneuver, the ranged attack issue is fixed.
So level 2 without the vile damage.

....You do realize that this needs a range specified, right? You also need to specify if it functions only against creatures, or against objects as well. Furthermore, if it renders the foe shaken on a failed save, it should be noted that it counts as a mind-affecting fear effect, or at least note that the shaken effect is such. Might also need to be specified as a necromancy effect or enchantment effect, depending on how it functions flavor-wise. 7th-level might be fine, I'm not sure cuz I can't remember the specifics of the few existing ranged-attack maneuvers from Desert Wind and Shadow Hand.

Range I forgot to mention, but it was 60 ft. Its pretty much based on Shadow Noose (page 79). But this is a stronger, so I upped it a level. This is the Description:

Darksoul Fang
Cursed Fangs (Strike)
Level: Master of Blades 7
Prerequisite: Three Cursed Fangs maneuvers.
Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
Range: 60 ft.
Target: One creature

You hold your blades up, crossing each other. As you initiate a fast slice through the air, black ki energy covers your weapons. Releasing a wave of red steaming darkness ripping forward, ravaging everything in its path.

As part of this maneuver you make a ranged touch attack. If it hits, your opponent takes 8d6 points of damage. In addition, he must make a successful Will save ( DC 17 + your Wis modifier) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds. Becoming shaken is a mind-affecting fear effect. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

Need to specify that this involves a melee attack. Wording/spelling/grammar also needs a bit of tweaking (frex, 'you become under the effect of the Unholy Aura spell for one round, the aura effects only you.' should be worded 'you are affected by an Unholy Aura. This functions as per the spell, cast by a cleric of the same caster level as your initiator level, except the Unholy Aura affects targets only you, lasts only 1 round, and its Fortitude save DC is based on this maneuver's level and your Wisdom modifier.' The last section should say "In addition, the target you have stricken with Blade of Overpowering Evil is knocked prone unless he or she succeeds at a Fortitude save (DC = 18 + your Wisdom modifier)."

Blade of Overpowering Evil
Cursed Fangs (Strike)
Level: Master of Blades 8
Prerequisite: Three Cursed Fangs maneuvers.
Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round

If your target is non-evil, you gain a +8 bonus on your attack. If it hits, this attack deals an extra 6d8 points of damage and you gain benefits as if your under the effect of an Unholy Aura spell for one round. In addition, if the target is up to one size class larger then you, it must make a successful Fortitude save ( DC 18 + your Wis modifier) or be knocked prone.

I’ll keep it at 8, if it ends up to be overpowered in game it can always be nerfed then.

First, note that 'strikes' should be 'Strikes' or 'Strike maneuvers' for clarity's sake. Second, you should note it is a 'normal off-hand attack' so as not to get people confused that about whether or not it is a duplication of the Strike maneuver. Third, the attack thing should be 'with your highest Base Attack Bonus.'

Fourth, you need to specify if two-weapon fighting penalties apply or not, and whether or not this only applies when your Strike uses the primary-hand weapon, and whether or not the primary-hand weapon has to be made as though it were one-handed (since it could be a two-bladed sword or the like, which can be used as a two-handed weapon for more damage when not using it specifically as a double weapon).

Fifth, the whole rolling part doesn't make sense; just say "You may make this off-hand attack either before or after the Strike maneuver, but you must make the decision whether or not to use this off-hand attack at the same time that you decide to use that particular Strike." Though I'm not sure if it's even necessary. I dunno if level 5 is appropriate or not for the stance, but it seems alright....may be more appropriate at level 4 or something but I dunno.

Ok, I just simplified it to:

Equilibrium – Stance – Balanced Blades
Whenever you make a single strike maneuver you may make one extra normal off-hand attack, using your maximum attack modifier. Two-weapon fighting penalties apply normally.
_______________________________________________________________________


Im in need of a health steeling effect, vampiric touch like. Any suggestion for such a maneuver of level 4, or close by?

Seriously Arkhandus, I really appreciate your great amount of feedback, it helped me immense. I hope you will be able to help shape this class a bit more.

Gratz!
Zach.

 

[Arkhandus]

You're welcome. Short response now, as it's really freakin' late where I am, and I'm still not sleepy but really ought to try falling asleep anyway at 5 am......

Note that this ability is only in effect when wielding two swords of the same type and not wearing armor. The defense part is this class his equivalent to the monks +Armor. It might still be an option to spread out the defense and offence gain to decrease the jumps in power. For example: Dual Blade Offence and Dual Blade Defense. Keeping the offence on 1, 6,11 and 16 since this is an offensive class. The defense 2 or 3 levels later. What do you think?

I'd move the defense bonuses to slightly different levels to stagger it a bit more, gained at even-numbered levels like 8, 14, and 18 or somesuch.

Another thing is that I was thinking of making his Attack roll bonus, which is normally based on STR, based on his DEX modifier. As with Ambidexterity. Because normally the Two-weapon fighting feats require a lot of dex. This way the player needs to focus more on dex aswell. His damage bonus still goes on STR. I think it fits this class well.

I dunno. Gives the class more MAD (multiple ability dependancy) since it'll need Str, Con, and Wis to all be somewhere between decent and great. Might be thematically appropriate but I dunno if it's fair balance-wise.

I was thinking of giving him the deflect arrow feat, I read about somewhere, cant recall where though. As it makes sense that he can deflect them with is blade skills. Reflex safe against ranged attacks for half damage or something. Improved for no damage?

*Starts to look up wtf the feint mechanic is…. Finds nothing in DM Guide or PM* Sounds cool, but what does feint do?

Deflect Arrows is a feat from the Player's Handbook. Feinting in combat is one of the options listed in the description of the Bluff skill in the Player's Handbook.

Deflect Arrows used a Reflex save in 3.0 rules but 3.5 made it automatic, and either way it's always been no damage when successful; it harmlessly deflects one ranged attack per round, excluding stuff like boulders, siege weapons, giant-thrown rocks, magic missiles, scorching rays, etc.

The reason behind it is that the Blademaster makes use of Ki energy to initiate/power his martial moves. As far as I know Ki is spiritual energy, something drawn from the soul. So a good Blademaster generates positive Ki and a evil negative. The maneuvers function on that specific Ki. But yes, as you mentioned, lawful neutral is also an option. To keep it simple I just gave that class a choice between Cleansing Swords or Cursed Fangs. You do realize that Balanced Blades is available to all blademasters, its not alignment restricted. It is the neutral ground for all blademasters.

Yeah, but Monks use ki as well, just less directly most of the time, and they're actually more likely to be Lawful Neutral than anything else. Ki is just personal energy of the body and spirit, sort of. It doesn't have to be positive or negative, though it can be sometimes.

My point was just that a Lawful Neutral Blademaster is going to have to learn either Cleansing Swords or Cursed Fangs, in addition to Balanced Blades. This means he will inevitably be heading towards good or evil alignment as he uses those maneuvers more and more often (just like a wizard who casts Animate Dead frequently, or Summon Monster IV to summon fiendish creatures, will eventually become evil-aligned himself if he doesn't balance that use of Evil-aligned spells with as much or more goodly actions). It would be difficult for the LN Blademaster to avoid quickly turning to LG or LE alignment.

Yeah it is more effective for sure. It is a standard action strike. Can you combine maneuvers with power attack? Because in that case this might be a bit to powerful early?

Moved to level 3 for now.

Yes, you can. I recently said otherwise in another thread, but that's only because I got it mixed up in my head for a while about what stuff could and could not be used with maneuvers. Power Attack is one of those things that can be used with maneuvers.

So level 3 or 4 is probably best for the true strike maneuver.

Im in need of a health steeling effect, vampiric touch like. Any suggestion for such a maneuver of level 4, or close by?

Well....

Fang of Lifeleech
Cursed Fangs (Strike)
Level: Master of Blades 4
Prerequisite: Two Cursed Fangs maneuvers.
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Fancy description goes here.

With this maneuver, make a single melee attack against a living creature within reach. If your attack succeeds and deals normal hit point damage, after any Damage Reduction or other defenses, you are healed as some of the victim's life-energy is forcibly transfered to you. Your attack deals +2d6 negative energy damage, and you are magically healed for an amount of hit point damage equal to one-half of the total damage you dealt with this attack, rounded up.



This may be on the weak side though, I'm not sure. May be more like 3rd-level material as-is, or might need 1-2 dice more/less of bonus damage, or might be just fine.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Deflect Arrows seem to be excellent ideas for Counters, in my opinion. Since your master of blades is meant to be an agile combatant, he could be a master of counter-type manoeuvres, agile ripostes, and accurate strikes. Basically, a fighter who avoids/negates attacks, as opposed to simply absorbing them (like a Crusader does).

So... Diamond Mind and some self-made disciplines. You might look a Nifft's Dancing Fox Discipline here in house rules (there's a link in his Sig) for an example of a tricksy, fast Discipline.