D&D 5E Worldbuilding: destruction and siege via Mold Earth?

[greg kaye]

It also doesn't make sense that a cantrip can "replace a thousand men".

Mending, in 10 minutes, can do the physically impossible.
Mold earth, via a 6-second action, can move a 5 ft cube of loose earth a distance of 5 ft.
Both spells are pretty useless in combat - but, for utility, they might have uses.

 

[overgeeked]

I choose all the loose earth within a 5-foot cube that stretches down from the surface that I can see.

You don’t get that choice if the conditions of the spell are not met.

“You choose 1) a portion of dirt or stone 2) that you can see 3) within range 4) and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways…”

Unless the target fits all four of those stipulations, the spell fails.

As we’ve already gone around and around about what all of these mean (except thankfully what a 5ft cube is), there’s no point rebutting all this again.

 

[greg kaye]

You don’t get that choice if the conditions of the spell are not met.

“You choose 1) a portion of dirt or stone 2) that you can see 3) within range 4) and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways…”

Unless the target fits all four of those stipulations, the spell fails.

As we’ve already gone around and around about what all of these mean (except thankfully what a 5ft cube is), there’s no point rebutting all this again.

I look out at an area of ground composed of loose earth and:

I choose all the loose earth within a 5-foot cube that stretches down from the surface that I can see.

My analogies were sandy dune-type material.

 

[AmandaBarbarian]

You don’t get that choice if the conditions of the spell are not met.

“You choose 1) a portion of dirt or stone 2) that you can see 3) within range 4) and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways…”

Unless the target fits all four of those stipulations, the spell fails.

As we’ve already gone around and around about what all of these mean (except thankfully what a 5ft cube is), there’s no point rebutting all this again.

except the part where you think that there is ever a time you see all 5ft of dirt

 

[Oofta]

Mending, in 10 minutes, can do the physically impossible.
Mold earth, via a 6-second action, can move a 5 ft cube of loose earth a distance of 5 ft.
Both spells are pretty useless in combat - but, for utility, they might have uses.

Mending can do some things more quickly and potentially more seamlessly than a person could do. It is also limited to a single tear or break of a foot or less so in some cases it can't do what a person could do.

Mold earth requires loose earth. You think that loose earth means anything you can dig with a shovel, I disagree. I've shoveled plenty of dense clay soil; it was by no means loose earth. To me, loose dirt means actually loose - something I could dig out bare handed or with minimal force from a shovel.

Both spells do have significant utility, I just don't think they apply to taking down fortress walls or replacing, as said above, 10,000 men.

 

[greg kaye]

Mending can do some things more quickly and potentially more seamlessly than a person could do. It is also limited to a single tear or break of a foot or less so in some cases it can't do what a person could do.

Mold earth requires loose earth. You think that loose earth means anything you can dig with a shovel, I disagree. I've shoveled plenty of dense clay soil; it was by no means loose earth. To me, loose dirt means actually loose - something I could dig out bare handed or with minimal force from a shovel.
...

Likewise.

...
Both spells do have significant utility, I just don't think they apply to taking down fortress walls or replacing, as said above, 10,000 men.

I doubt that people could build a fortress on loose ground. Depending on circumstances mold earth might do better undermining some stockades or, as mentioned, for moving materials into ramps to enable an attack on larger structures.

 

[Stalker0]

I guess it's always just going to be a DM's call on what loose earth really means. To me? It means something I could scoop by hand or with little effort if shoveling. If I have to stand on the shovel or use a pickaxe, it's not "loose".

Mine as well. If I can't easily move the dirt with my hands, than its not loose dirt.

 

[Stalker0]

I would not lightly take the rules for PC spellcasters on combat timescales and extend them to hours and days of working.

Yep, same argument for Guidance. Sure you can technically cast guidance all day every day.

But can you maintain guidance up every waking hour of the day....no your may not. Why? Because spellcasting is some mental and physical activity, and just as you can't sprint for 8 hours a day, I'm not letting you cast spells all day either.

 

[Stalker0]

On the notion that you need to "see the earth" your moving. I respect that the spell does say this. However, it becomes immediately obvious that you cannot affect the area the spell specifies (a 5 ft cube) with that restriction. the spell is in internal conflict, and so a DM ruling is required.

I would go with the more common notion on area spells. Often the spellcaster has to target the origin point for the area (which often requires sight), but then the area spreads out from there, and can be away from the caster's sight. So you must able to see your starting point for the 5 feet cube, but then the area can extend beyond your sight.

If you need a more flavor explanation, imagine that the top layer of dirt moves first, revealing a layer you can see, and then the next layer, and so forth, super fast.

 

[kigmatzomat]

It also doesn't make sense that a cantrip can "replace a thousand men".

Look at it from the other direction. Compare the price of casting other spells, using the prices in a d&d supplement, Adventurer's League. Lets use 1st level Cure Wounds (10gp/ea) which probably has more caster available than those with Mold Earth.

Is an hour of cantrips (600 castings) on par with 6x 1st level spells that take a minute's effort? I wouldn't automatically say no. That would be 60gp of work.

So what does 60gp of work look like in d&d? Well, its 300 unskilled laborers for one day, at 2sp each.

How much dirt can 300 unskilled laborers move with shovels in a day?

How Long Does It Take To Dig a 6 Foot Hole? Production Rates For Manual and Mechanical Excavation in Light, Medium and Heavy Soil

How Long Does It Take To Dig a 6 Foot Hole? Production Rates For Manual and Mechanical Excavation in Clay, Sand, Silt, Loam, Silty Sand, Silty Clay and Sandy Clay. How long it takes to dig a hole d…

estimationqs.com

According to the above, it's about 53,000cf of light soil (loam) or 35,000cf of medium soil (sandy clay). (We will assume anything in that "heavy soil" category is compacted soil, which is immune to a wooden shovel and requires a pick or the equivalent and wouldnt be affected by Mold Earth)

How much did that hour of Mold Earth do? 600x125cf=75,000cf.

So 1.5-2x different. Which in the fuzzy world of d&d economics is actually pretty close.