World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

[erucsbo]

I *do* really appreciate this

Start your grapple from 10 feet (assuming that is out of reach of the PC) to prevent an AoO. Back off with a 5' step to do so if you have to.

as rv said - still an AoO
but the -20 might be worth it if I can get them close enough to the spellcasters.

If you havent already, check also the conditions for the region. Everyone PC without protection from fear should be "shaken". Double shaken is "fear". I think a properly timed intimidate check can force someone to flee for a round. I'm not positive on this one though, all my PCs were protected from Fear by this time.

Isnt within 40' of lava extra heat damage?

they have heat protection up (though if they are in the lava it will still hurt a lot)
and I've pulled the fear back to only when they initially entered in sight of the ice prison of Tyrus. I might put it back in as another check if they venture too far from the paladin though.

Oh and you cant technically toss someone you have grappled, but you can drag someone you have pinned half your movement (into the lava presumably).

Kinda late for all this I know, but maybe you'll find a nugget or two you can use.

never too late. The barbarian is raging, so I might use that to have him chase a giant in to an ambush, then use Improved Overrun ...

Divide and conquer is what they are trying to use on the giants.
The giants are Lawful, so I think I'll play on that and let the chaotic actions of the party reap their own rewards. I really just need to make sure I have as much of the rules nutted out as possible because a few of the players really do know them better than me (and thus have a better bluff check in the metagame!)

 

[Traevanon]

Thanks for the correction RV. Back to the top its grapple the casters and sunder the fighters. Good luck!

 

[erucsbo]

broken toys!!!

Last night we used sunder for the very first time.
One of my players said after the game that Improved Sunder is the DM's tactical nuke, with the advice (from his own DMing experience) - do not use it if you don't want the players to go for it. That really helps in retrospect - not.

A single giant used Improved Sunder and managed to break a +2 bastard sword, a +1 bastard sword (replacement for the first one) and a +1 holy merciful great-axe (took 2 goes). Man does this screw the fighters over.

With judicious use of multiple Walls of Force, Fear, Slow, Ice Storm, Haste and blind panic the party managed to bug out after dropping one giant, but they now realise that going toe-to-toe in melee with giants is going to hurt a LOT more than just losing hitpoints.

So - thanks muchly for the advice - the battle took up virtually the entire session (about 4 hours) and will result in the party having to come up with a new strategy.
I just hope that a big can of worms has not been opened due to using Sunder.

I don't want to ruin the game for the fighters by breaking all of their toys, but neither am I going to let the giants be walked over. Wil have to do some meta-game thinking now.

 

[rvalle]

Yeah, we've managed to avoid the whole Sunder, Trip thing. In fact, for some creatures I've replaced the Improved Sunder feat with something else so it is not wasted.

I just don't feel like going down that road... but if the players ever pull that card out all gloves are off.



Good luck and let us know what happens.

rv

 

[raynbow]

I almost said something when you first mentioned using sunder, sorry!

Yeah sunder is not a road you want to walk down. It's just as nasty and effective when players use it and it can really ruin a good fight if the PC's sunder your big baddies uber weapon.

On the other hand, PC's don't really want to sunder, because they don't want to break potential loot.

On the other other hand, there are alot more non magical weapons out there than magical ones, and alot of situations where they could use it without much risk of destroying any nice loot.

Most of the games I'm in, as either player or GM, have a sort of Gentleman's agreement around sunder where the GM promises not to use it if the player's don't use it.

You may have opened a fairly nasty can of worms by introducing them to sunder.

 

[erucsbo]

I almost said something when you first mentioned using sunder, sorry!

And how much snig.gering is really going on now that for me the proverbial has hit the proverbial?

I'm just glad that we haven't introduced legacy weapons or other items that would be very hard to replace.

If nothing else it has been an eye-opener, and may actually force the party to think about their actions before wading in swords and axes flailing.

We've already been through "trip" and "grapple".

Are there any other unopened cans that I need to be wary of?

 

[Rabelais]

wow... this thread has over 100k views. Grats y'all.

 

[rvalle]

And how much snig.gering is really going on now that for me the proverbial has hit the proverbial?

I'm just glad that we haven't introduced legacy weapons or other items that would be very hard to replace.

If nothing else it has been an eye-opener, and may actually force the party to think about their actions before wading in swords and axes flailing.

We've already been through "trip" and "grapple".

Are there any other unopened cans that I need to be wary of?

No snickering here!


Thats all I can think of rules wise. There are some spells I think I'm going to be unhappy with. One of the players is building a 'buff/debuff' type caster. He's going to be casting Empowered Ray of Enfebalment on everything. Touch AC and - 1d8*1.5 STR... Great. So the level 15 bad guy with 300 HP's now has a 3 STR and can hardly move. Bleh.

And he has already asked if Waves of Fatigue and Ray of Exhaustion stack. As far as I can tell they do (well, not stack but if they work as 2 seperate spells. So Waves go off, save or be exhasted and save and be fatigued. Hit with a Ray and since you are fatuged already you are auto exhausted). so there is a -6 str and -6 dex. I'm going to really hate this character.

rv

 

[rvalle]

wow... this thread has over 100k views. Grats y'all.

Thats a lot of views!

rv

 

[raynbow]

Improved Grapple? That one is monsters only but boy can it slow a game down.

Sunder is about the only thing that's just "not done" in our groups.

Your spellcaster is annoying, but he won't be too awful. We have one like that in the group I'm a player in, he made more of a debuff wizard than a boom boom wizard.

He's really good against a couple big enemies but if it's a swarm of smaller enemies, or casters, or people with high saving throws or spell resistance, he's not as effective.

I wouldn't get too worried about it if they occasionally cakewalk a fight you thought was going to be tough. For everytime that happens there will probably be a fight you thought was going to be easy that they have a ton of trouble with.