Worlds & Monsters: humans are boring??

[Jhaelen]

I think the sentiment is that fantasy cultures that = real world cultures with the serial numbers filed off are less cool than, say, Dark Sun.

I'm not sure if Dark Sun is a good example, because if you look at the City States, each of was obviously inspired by a particular real world culture.

Actually, I think it's a good thing, if you can recognize the real world culture that was used as a basis for a fantasy culture. It makes it a lot easier to DM it because you automatically have access to lots of interesting information to give detailed descriptions.

It's extremely difficult to come up with a truly original fantasy culture that doesn't resemble a real world culture but still makes sense.

About the quote: I'd prefer the egyptian style empire ruled by mummies over the generic dwarves & lizards stuff any day.

 

[DandD]

And what if those egyptian style empires ruled by mummies are primarily inhabited by lizardes and frog-sorcerours, with humans as a normal by-stander race, as common as elves, dwarves and whatever?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Ya know, really...

I have seen Egyptians ruled by mummies done well, but only once. And that was because warhammer did away with the Egyptians and said everyone was just gonna be Mummies or lich-priests.

Otherwise - the Salamander and Lizard ruled empire that creates its own culture or provides only a tangential analogue is really superior. I mean, there was a thread on here a few years back about an empire with dragons as Roman senator, kobolds as mandarin, and lizardfolk as Hindu-style warrior caste that was just extraordinary. I believe it had humans as a sort of specialized peasant caste who got Yeoman status in colder climes.


It's worth noting that neither the Lord of the Rings nor Narnia really use humans as a baseline.

 

[Dayen]

It's worth noting that neither the Lord of the Rings nor Narnia really use humans as a baseline.

I disagree, Lord of the Rings -- I'm assuming we're talking about the Fellowship saga -- is about the ascension of Man to primacy in Middle Earth. Elves are retreating, Dwarves are dying, Hobbits are Hobbits and a select few are extraordinarily heroic. Sauron is basically the reason the old races are lingering, and when he's gone, so is their purpose for remaining. The Valar and their servitors are free to depart as well.

Narnia's difficult to touch on because it's actually a bit of a religious satire; needless to say each of the characters in C.S. Lewis' saga relates to an idea or an individual of currency to his time. But I agree, it's otherwise a great example of a world where human primacy is not assumed.

 

[rounser]

I have seen Egyptians ruled by mummies done well, but only once. And that was because warhammer did away with the Egyptians and said everyone was just gonna be Mummies or lich-priests.

Djelibeybi in Discworld is effectively ruled by a mummy in that the High Priest sleeps in a pyramid which effectively makes him immortal, and he makes the king a puppet. That's a truly interesting situation, no gimmicks needed.

Otherwise - the Salamander and Lizard ruled empire that creates its own culture or provides only a tangential analogue is really superior.

I disagree. Only if you're comparing yourself to hacks, which perhaps game writers pretty much have to be because of the weight of rules, marketing and gameplay on their shoulders. DMs generally come up with hackneyed ideas themselves, simply because half of us are below average, and good writing being the exception rather than the rule.

I much prefer the Pixar model, which is that no amount of technical gimmicks (which is effectively all an exotic race is) will make up for a poor story. That's the foundation, and Pixar have profited by recognising that. Your average DM is not Pixar, though, and cannot rewrite for years.

 

[Nymrohd]

May I say that I feel the original quote from W&M was taken out of context? I think the intention was mainly to state that cultural simulations campaigns with fantasy elements are less interesting to the general public than fantasy campaigns are. In short they don't want to go back to the model of creating entire campaign settings just to satisfy a cliche.

 

[DandD]

Discworld is also primarily a satire of normal fantasy worlds. People don't play in Discworld normaly, they read it. Sure, there's the poor attempt at playing Discworld with the Gurps-rule, but really, it isn't that popular, and most people won't be able to retain that sense of humor that Pratchet is known for.
Also, his later stories go further and further away from the "weird magic age", and onwards to the "weird modern age".

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I deal with humans on a daily basis, yes they are boring.

 

[rounser]

Discworld is also primarily a satire of normal fantasy worlds. People don't play in Discworld normaly, they read it. Sure, there's the poor attempt at playing Discworld with the Gurps-rule, but really, it isn't that popular, and most people won't be able to retain that sense of humor that Pratchet is known for.
Also, his later stories go further and further away from the "weird magic age", and onwards to the "weird modern age".

I fail to see how any of this is relevant.

Djelibeybi still stands as an example of "much more interesting than a random dragonborn empire". Just because D&D is gaming doesn't mean bad writing based on humans-in-funny-suits suddenly becomes good, or that gimmicks suddenly beat substance. Likewise, just because Pixar uses high tech 3D animation software, it can't make up for bad concepts and stories with technical gimmickry.

The difference appears to be that Pixar realises this, and apparently WOTC doesn't (unless they've been taken out of context, or are talking through their teeth to us average lowest common denominator DMs who couldn't arrive at a good story even if they were sent to one by taxi or something).

 

[DandD]

I also fail to see the relevance of your posting. First of all, there hasn't been a dragonborn empire presented yet. Even more, the game designers have said that in their PoL-game concept, they won't detail out any nation, empire, or whatever, and just leave things as it is, for the Gamemasters to do whatever they want to do.
Secondly, Djelibeby isn't an interesting setting to play, because it's only meant as a joke, a funny thing to read, but not to play in there and have adventures. Unless you are capable of Pratchetesque feats of surprise and humor, but such a campaign wouldn't be serious at all, doesn't have lots of gory violence, and whatever.
Don't confuse funny books with interesting settings. Djelibeby was meant to make fun of pyramid-building people who incarcerate (unwilling) mummies in there, just because a guy in a endless time-loop told them they should do so.