Worlds of Design: How Would You Design For Spelljammer?

I enjoyed playing Spelljammer in conjunction with the 1e D&D rules back in the day - I'm a naval guy at heart. For those who don't remember, it's FRPG in outer space, with different physics and magical spaceships that often resemble creatures such as sharks or wasps, for 7th-13th level. (There was a brief version in Dungeon Magazine for 3e as well.) I read that we may see a new version for 5e, so I dug out some old notes in order to discuss the design of the original game.

Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​

Spelljammer included core rules, supplements, adventures. The rules and published adventures are chaotic, inconsistent, as though there was no editorial oversight. Sometimes they don't even enforce the major rule that the helmsman has lost all his spells for the day, or the major rule that the strategic (not tactical) speed of all ships is the same.

The former highlights the biggest problem for an adventuring party that controls a 'jammer, one of the characters (two, if the ship is under power 24 hours) must give up his spells to helm the ship, which means either:

• the players with spell-casters should have an extra character because one will be mostly-useless when out in wildspace, or
• NPCs take care of the helming, often a lowish-level type since the low level doesn't affect strategic speed even though it affects tactical speed. But in battle either the players sacrifice one of their high level spell-casters, or they are at a disadvantage in maneuver (another reason to board, if you can get close enough).

The weapons are ridiculously accurate. This is not unusual for fantasy games: most people don't realize how hard it is during combat to hit a target with anything, even with a pistol at a range of less than 10 feet. (That's why automatic weapons are so popular.) Yet rarely, in a battle, was a ship destroyed (I remember my 40 ton galleon disintegrating!); instead, boarding action was the order of the day. So Spelljammer battles often become the equivalent of encounters in buildings (castle, cathedral, etc.), two or three ships locked together with otherwise-fairly-typical D&D combat going on (with 3D action). I have deck plans found online that can be printed out at a size for actual play (square grids). One of my player's made a physical Hammership (for combat, not for looks) that I still have, about four feet long.

The tonnage of ships (which is supposed to be gross tonnage, that is, volume) is sometimes way out of proportion with the deck plans. Somewhere I have a list of the squares of the deck plans compared with the tonnage, and it varies wildly. Once again, no effective editorial oversight.

The biggest flaw was one of behavior. If you had a substantial sized flying vessel would you go out into (wild)space looking for trouble, or would you stay on the planet and use your nigh-invulnerable super bomber as a means for terrestrial combat? Even if you have nothing that would explode and can only drop rocks, you've got a stupendous advantage; but gunpowder and bombards are available in this game. The assumption of the Spelljammer rules was that no one would ever do this! I can't recall rules for conducting a battle in this context.

The game included many new monsters. The spiderlike Neogi are built up as major bad guys, but aren't dangerous compared with (insane) beholder-filled ships - Just Say No! Ships full of Illithids and their slaves are scary enough, thank you.

I drafted a set of standalone rules to solve these problems, but never finished them. More recently, I tested a game of fleet battles using some of Spelljammer's ideas. Maybe someday I'll finish one or the other, but first we'll see what Wizards of the Coast are going to do.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It’s been ages since I cracked a Spelljammer book. I loved the setting, but nobody else was interested, so I never got to use them much, except for the occasional yoink of an element or two. Like the hamsters.

So I’m not surprised that my ideas were actually already in the setting. I probably just forgot about them.

 

[DammitVictor]

Sounds awesome. Do you have it published on a website anywhere?

Soon. It's going to be one of the official settings for the retroclone I am designing. I was developing it as a separate game, but my artist quit on me, and in the interim I started working on a system that would be perfectly suited to two of my three settings.


I will be posting some parts of the retroclone soon as faeriegodfather.us soon. Hopefully including playtest rules within the next couple of months.

 

[Tranquilis]

Spelljammer is fantasy space travel, so I would keep it as an add on to the D&D game, it is Dungeons and Dragons onboard magical flying ships in space, so I would keep the boarding action, and keep all the rules. I would not go in the direction of Starfinder, I would resist the temptation to introduce new tech to the game, by keeping it all magical but as D&D in space. I would use the monsters in the Monster Manuals as aliens. The one thing Starfinder does is it makes its setting "Science Fictional" without it actually being science fiction. As far as Science Fiction role playing games modeled after Dungeons and Dragons I liked the Buck Rogers XXV RPG.

The game was actually a hard science fiction role playing game despite its pulpish artwork. They published a more pulpish version later that I didn't like, but the original role playing game was great!, and it was compatible with Dungeons and Dragons at that time. I think we could make a 5e version of Buck Rogers XXV, what do you think?

XXVc is totally, freaking awesome. I’ve even got a Yahoo! Group devoted to it. The TSR comic modules give the best example of tone, in my opinion. I’d say they are as essential as the RPG material.

The setting isn’t without some unresolved problems, but I love it. The AD&D 2.5 lite rules set is pretty cool, too.

 

[Tranquilis]

Just want to thank everyone for making this a great thread. Each post has some great insight, ideas, and opinions. I’m definitely bookmarking, and probably printing it out for future idea mining!

 

[Ratskinner]

I don't actually recall a super-whole lot about SJ. I only played in one campaign.

However, I like the idea of a "broken" crystal sphere, with asteroids etc. floating out in the phlogiston. Perfect setup for Airship Pirates IN SPAAACE, plus it could look a lot more like the visually awesome Treasure Planet movie.

Ruleswise....

So I hate the Hit Point mechanic, in general...

I can almost deal with it for hack-n-slash. But if a setting includes firearms?

No, just no. All the little things that make HP kinda work (in-fiction) when you squint your eyes in fantasy just go away when firearms are involved.

I almost feel like firearms require a Karma/Charisma-based saving throw mechanic, rather than HP. Like, you get shot and start making a series of saves. Each missed save increases the severity of the injury. (some number 3, 4, 5? misses means instant-kill)


Oh, and it seems to me that the solution to the "bomber" problem is just to make atmospheric operations of a helm crazy expensive or awkward somehow. (Like real costs to players, not just money.) If getting into and out of orbit is easier than sailing to next county....

Makes me think that maybe some kind of "fuel" other than spells slots might be needed.


anyway, my $.02

 

[Jay Verkuilen]

Ruleswise....

So I hate the Hit Point mechanic, in general...

I can almost deal with it for hack-n-slash. But if a setting includes firearms?

No, just no. All the little things that make HP kinda work (in-fiction) when you squint your eyes in fantasy just go away when firearms are involved.

First of all, Hollywood to the contrary, firearms aren't massively more deadly than other weapons. Their main benefit is that they're really convenient and not dependent on strength of the wielder. Having a gun to your throat or a knife to your throat is both about equally bad but not to any even mid-level character even if the holder is a high level rogue. Many people have survived a gunshot wound and there are notable examples of soldiers fighting through a battle with several wounds. Hit points, despite their issues and notable Murphy's rules moments, do useful work in terms of making combat reasonably survivable and exciting despite the massive scale differences between combatants, who can range from pixies to dragons.

My feeling is if your secondary reality needs guns to be deadlier, build it into critical hits. For instance, a gun may have as a property that it does some extra dice of damage on a critical or may critical more often. For instance, you could have something like:

Firelock Weapon: Firelock weapons' critical range is extended by 1 and upon a critical they do an extra D10 damage upon a critical.

That would be enough to make them fairly nasty, especially in the hands of a character like a Champion Fighter who already has an extended critical range. I don't think the average damage would be all that much higher, but it would feel fun for the 3 attack character festooned with pistols.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Archaic firearms aren't massively more deadly than other weapons. Certain modern ones- particularly those with high velocity rounds- are an entirely different story.

 

[Ratskinner]

First of all, Hollywood to the contrary, firearms aren't massively more deadly than other weapons.

No real argument. My concern isn't so much about the deadliness as it is about the dynamics of the combat.

 

[Von Ether]

XXVc is totally, freaking awesome. I’ve even got a Yahoo! Group devoted to it. The TSR comic modules give the best example of tone, in my opinion. I’d say they are as essential as the RPG material.

The setting isn’t without some unresolved problems, but I love it. The AD&D 2.5 lite rules set is pretty cool, too.

I'll have to check XXVc out, but get over my real world bias how that was the start of the end of TSR.

 

[Dalillama]

A modern redesign of Spelljammer that included major elements from Buck Rogers XXVc would be amazing.

Double the list of playable races so that half are D&D and the other half are a mixture of SJ and XXVc. Alongside all the smokepowder firearms, have limited-use, rechargeable energy weapons as magic items primarily for Fighters.

All the new PC races added in Spelljammer are nicked from Star Frontiers already.

ETA: For my money, I'd want to see a lot more fantasy in my fantasy space. Fewer 'this is just like a regular planet/solar system, only in a crystal sphere', more world trees, starbeasts, giant mushrooms, hollow worlds, genuine seas in which the worlds are islands and you can sail between them, (best advised you know whether you're entering from the air half or the water half) etc.