WotC: Re-issue older editions.

[Coldwyn]

Well, seeing that Shadzar left the building maybe some other can answer this: Does anyone really believe that selling plain and simple scans of old books could hold up to modern markets and customers?

 

[Reynard]

Well, seeing that Shadzar left the building maybe some other can answer this: Does anyone really believe that selling plain and simple scans of old books could hold up to modern markets and customers?

Just for clarity, this is not what I was suggesting. I think there's a place for old pdf's and maybe even POD of those, but I was talking about actual re-issues (new trade dress, a little editing, etc..,) The point is for WotC to assume stewardship over all D&D, so their "stamp" (however superficial) would have to be on them.

 

[Coldwyn]

Just for clarity, this is not what I was suggesting. I think there's a place for old pdf's and maybe even POD of those, but I was talking about actual re-issues (new trade dress, a little editing, etc..,) The point is for WotC to assume stewardship over all D&D, so their "stamp" (however superficial) would have to be on them.

I understood that quite well.
That´s one of the reasons I said it would be a hell of an investment in money and manpower.

It boils down to the same basic problems Transbot9 also mentioned:
First of all, you´d need to recreate the basic files used for printing and color proofing, meaning you´d have to recreate the book wholecloth. Old finished books don´t help here at all. That´s the whole layouting process and everything associated with it all over again.

So ten begins the aforementioned brand-dilution: When some parents walks into a B&N and wants to buy D&D for the kiddies and there´s a whole range of editions, all labeled Dungeons&Dragons, some as PHB others in boxes, what to chose?

And again, actively sold material should get product support, also additional costs.

Lastly, we older games may know most or all editions that have been out there, you´d need to get that stuff advertised to the great unwashed to get some more buyers, meaning more adds all around, leading to more costs, else you´d only do a limited print-run for the diehard fans.

 

[Glade Riven]

There is the fact that it would be creating a customer service nightmare (spent 2+ years as a Geek Squad Counter Operations, where not only did I get to do the normal Geek Squad stuff, but explain to people why their $2000 notebook computer couldn't be repaired under MFG because they spilt something on it).

A likely scenario
Jimmy's freinds are starting up a new D&D game, and Jimmy wants in. He goes online, sees something call Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook. Not bothering to read the "fine" print, Jimmy buys it thinking he's got the latest and greatest product. So he shows up at the party with his AD&D book and his AD&D character sheet, and everyone else has 4e. Confusion turns to embarressment and then to anger, which is later taken out on WotC by sending them nasty emails. He hooks up with others who feel they've been duped. They make an online group about how evil WotC is that remains rather small but still rather vocal.

Much of the goodwill gain towards old school players is then offset by angry people who didn't know there was a difference between 4e and AD&D, or AD&D and AD&D 2e. That doesn't mean that the angry people are stupid - it just means that expectations were not met.

In addition, a small but vocal minority can easily bug WotC to support the older editions as well as the latest version. If they do, it becomes a money pit that can kill the company. If they don't, more people light the torches and brandish the pitchforks.

And this is assuming that the product sells.

It just seems like a lose-lose proposition for WotC - unless there is enough demand to create an expensive Limited Collector's Edition old school AD&D 2e box set. But then it wouldn't be POD, but rather a convention exclusive or something.

 

[Reynard]

Much of the goodwill gain towards old school players is then offset by angry people who didn't know there was a difference between 4e and AD&D, or AD&D and AD&D 2e. That doesn't mean that the angry people are stupid - it just means that expectations were not met.

In addition, a small but vocal minority can easily bug WotC to support the older editions as well as the latest version. If they do, it becomes a money pit that can kill the company. If they don't, more people light the torches and brandish the pitchforks.

And this is assuming that the product sells.

It just seems like a lose-lose proposition for WotC - unless there is enough demand to create an expensive Limited Collector's Edition old school AD&D 2e box set. But then it wouldn't be POD, but rather a convention exclusive or something.

You may well be right -- though i'm not really talking about shelves and shelves of competing D&D lines so much as re-issues of the cores and perhaps any exceedingly popular supplements, primarily through specialty channels like POD and game shops.

Again, my inkling (and it is really no more than that) is that WotC has "lost" the D&D brand in the eyes of the pre-4E fans, and that is a problem moving into the future.

 

[SSquirrel]

Count me in the crowd who thinks it would be a useless operation on WotC's part and potentially damaging to 4E. Not that I think there will be thousands of people who leave 4E b/c 2E is now available easily (altho it's easy to find at any used bookstore here heh), but simply for the confusion about where their direction is.

I downloaded every one of the free pdfs that WotC had available from the old days before they pulled them and I agree w/that linked thread about quality. Some are good, some are missing a lot, some are blurry. If they want to put out a quality product, they will want to go back and scan things again. You also have to remember that this is scanning from 10 years ago and the expected quality of pdfs now is different from then. IIRC, some of the pdfs had an indexed menu and some didn't. Some had a cover and some didn't. Some of the covers you had to click on a link to get to, etc etc. I wouldn't sell these in 2011 if it was my company.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

I have heard estimates that within 50 years, that when you enter into a book store you would find just the front cover of the books that are for sale. There would be a bar code under the front cover. You would take the bard code place it in a POD printer swipe you credit card and select the quality of the paper, print, binding. Then wait as you book is printed for you.

 

[Kafen]

Count me in the crowd who thinks it would be a useless operation on WotC's part and potentially damaging to 4E. Not that I think there will be thousands of people who leave 4E b/c 2E is now available easily (altho it's easy to find at any used bookstore here heh), but simply for the confusion about where their direction is.

I downloaded every one of the free pdfs that WotC had available from the old days before they pulled them and I agree w/that linked thread about quality. Some are good, some are missing a lot, some are blurry. If they want to put out a quality product, they will want to go back and scan things again. You also have to remember that this is scanning from 10 years ago and the expected quality of pdfs now is different from then. IIRC, some of the pdfs had an indexed menu and some didn't. Some had a cover and some didn't. Some of the covers you had to click on a link to get to, etc etc. I wouldn't sell these in 2011 if it was my company.

The thing is...

Somebody that buys a POD set of Council of Wyrms, for example, is not looking for 2011 standards in art and design. The only standards that would apply would be technical in terms of DPI and scan resolution. As long as the final PDF meets the standards of the POD requirements, it is a simple matter of assigning one of the technical clerks to go through and proof read PDFs one at a time and flag parts of the product for new images, font issues, and POD requirements.

To bring up the Council of Wyrms setting for example, the art is horrid in DPI printing on the original cards. You are able to see the actual inklines of the printing process on one of the racial cards. As long as the scan is enough DPI to bring back the original style, it is very true to the era.

I can see license terms for art being an issue if they do not have the rights to re-issue the covers. But, I have no idea what kind of terms they are using.

Anyways, it would be a one time investment of time for each PDF in most cases. I do not see how WOTC could lose.

 

[Dungeoneer]

I'll shove my oar in - I suggest along with others that getting old material into printable format might be harder than it seems at first blush. TSR was a small company in the early days, flying by the seat of its pants. There may or may not be an extant master copy of some of their early stuff which would be good enough to scan professionally. In addition, you'd have to go through and update copyrights and company references through each document. And there'd probably be a lot of cleanup you'd have to do, not to mention the time spent running these things down.

That said, would it be worth it? Sure, over a period of several years they could gradually bring classic books back into print or create usable PDFs for them and sell them. And I think they would make money. Not megabucks, no, but a steady income stream over time. In the long run it would pay off.

BUT, they won't do it. At least, not why Hasbro is running the show. Hasbro is a toy company. You don't sell last year's line of toys. You sell THIS year's. That's their mindset. And this crazy publisher idea of keeping old products around? Why would you want to do that? We want the kids to buy NEW NEW NEW!

Yeah, I just don't see it happening under the Hasbro umbrella. Too bad.

 

[ATimson]

That said, would it be worth it? Sure, over a period of several years they could gradually bring classic books back into print or create usable PDFs for them and sell them. And I think they would make money. Not megabucks, no, but a steady income stream over time. In the long run it would pay off.

PDFs might pay off. I don't see new print runs ever doing so. And I think that their 4e sales would go down as a result of the brand confusion.