WotC Responds!!!

[JacktheRabbit]

In the section you quoted, BelenUmeria asked the question "Second, how will you keep this material away from kids?" I think that's a fair question.

I disagree. He is asking a question but he is implying a lot more. He is easily implying that it is impossible to keep out of the hands of anyone he thinks shouldnt have the book and because of this the book should not be produced.

Why else ask the question?

It is obvious that this is his real point because his entire tone suggests that he is against this book even if somehow you found a 100% foolproof way to keep it out of the hands of people he thinks shouldnt have the material.

Basically this is a red herring on his part. He doesnt want the book out there so like some Hillary Clinton wannabe he is using the "do it for the children whine" to suppress what he disagrees with personally.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

I will personally boycott any game store that stocks this product.

I will urge others to do likewise.

I will personally support any game store that stocks this product.

I will urge others to do likewise.

Gee, won't this be fun.

Consequently, rather than take speculative arguements from the moral minority, why don't we just get real information from the source so we can actually discuss this in an intelligent manner without having to counter apocolyptic speculation: Link

 

[Belen]

Actually, Doc, I do not disagree with the ideas of the book. In no way am I saying that such activity should be banned from the game. As I detest Ms. Clinton, I'd prefer not to be labeled in the same way as she.

Do I think that this book should be produced? No.

Why? Because the ad copy suggested no proof that this book will be done in a mature way. It suggests Nekkid elf maidens and fairies and they suggested that participation in BDSM were great qualifications for a book such as this.

If they want to produce a mature game supplement on love, romance, and sexuality, then fine. However, I am basing my opinion of their ad copy, and the link to the photos that was provided with it.

When they ask if we have ever wondered what was beneath the gauzy elven outfit, then I am not stuck with wonder at their level of maturity.

And if you look at their website, you see a whole lot of half-naked women in cheesy costumes, yet only two men. This does not strike me as "well-done." Nor do I see us being able to recruit women into the game with the example of this book.

Did I have an angry tone? Yes. I think I have a right based on what they have revealed so far. And if they come out right now and show that they DO have a tasteful product, then I will quiet down, but I will never purchase a product from Valar because of the way they decided to dance on our strings.

I really do not want an argument, and I hope that we can stop the personal attacks and have a discussion. Notice that I have said nothing to maligned your character, Doc, and I would appreciate the same respect.

Dave

 

[Belen]

Brendis,

Is there any reason that you use "moral minority" as a curse? Just because we are not in favor of the book, does not mean that we say that you cannot use such things in your game.

We just see no reason for a book about it and one that appears to be so cheesy and flame-invoking from the ad copy.

Dave

 

[mkarol]

Why shouldn't I or anyone else criticize (harshly or otherwise) people who _do_ want to do something perverse or destructive?

I was not discussing your right to criticize anything. I was simply, as the subject of this thread indicates, talking about WOTC’s response. It is WOTC’s response that I believe was over the top and inappropriate, not because of some ‘hyper technical’ reading of the english in which the OGL is written, but from a plain and intuitive sense that when you ‘open’ the door, anything will come in.

(try to imagine Michael Moore or any other critic of the war in Iraq criticizing it in those terms--to do so would undermine the criticism they wished to communicate). [/B]

If Michael Moore or Bob Hope or Eric Noah opened a message board and said “Please, everyone post your comments about the OGL. All ideas are welcome!” and then proceeded to, in that context, harshly criticize anyone who expressed a particular view or discussed a particular aspect thereof; then my criticism of the host would be the same as my criticism of WOTC in their response.

 

[herald]

I am not advocating that we ban anything. I am saying that we can add this element to our games without an organized set of rules. I am fairly certain that most games do not run sexual encounters. I mean, which encounter is more likely.

Tavern maid: Yes, Oh Paladin, I will spend the night with you.
DM: k, the next morning, Taric seems happy with himself.

or

(Let roleplay it out all- in front of the whole group!)

Tavern maid: Wait, Mr. high and Mighty (She slips on her mask and pulls out her whip): You have been a Baaaad boy.
Paladin: Spank me, wench, I need some penance. I work with a rogue!


Yes, makes for a great comic routine, but not really great in-game encounters. I can see where a book on love, romance, childrearing etc could be useful to characters. But erotica!?

Dave

Why does everything have to go back to kinky stuff.

Erotica has alot more to it that just Kink.

It has more to do with intamacy than wips and chains.

 

[rounser]

moral minority

More rhetoric.

When did morals come into this? Taking a moral stance is a world away from "don't like the concept".

 

[KnowTheToe]

I will personally boycott any game store that stocks this product.

I will urge others to do likewise.

I really don't think this will be an issue. What percentage of gamers are really interested in improving the sexuality of the D&D RPG. I think this will almost strictly be internet sales.

I personally just don't get the book. I don't want to bring sex into my games which are usually filled with other men.

 

[Enceladus]

I really don't think this will be an issue. What percentage of gamers are really interested in improving the sexuality of the D&D RPG. I think this will almost strictly be internet sales.

I personally just don't get the book. I don't want to bring sex into my games which are usually filled with other men.

Dude,

Totally. I didn't think about that part of it til just now. Thats just icky.

 

[herald]

Brendis,

Is there any reason that you use "moral minority" as a curse? Just because we are not in favor of the book, does not mean that we say that you cannot use such things in your game.

We just see no reason for a book about it and one that appears to be so cheesy and flame-invoking from the ad copy.

Dave

And I have no reason to use Macs or Linux computers. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't exist.

And before you say "Apples and Oranges". Well, I point out that Steve Ballmer of Microsoft has stated that "Open Source" is destructive to the progress of software development.

I bet he actualy believes that too.

The fact of the matter is that I believe you only see a narrow veiw of the overall market of the gaming industry and is customers. Some like differantly that you, and some use the rules differantly than you and some buy differant products than you because, simply, there not you. The don't have your wants or needs, they were brought up differently have had differant things happen to them. They like differant food. ect. ect. ect.

Being in a community is a cool, but very frightening thing. You have something incommon with people that you would never, ever associate with. Sometimes (I find most times) it can be alot of fun and very pleasureable. Other times it can be wierd, discusting, and downright unpleasant.

I'm a proponent of the free market when run fairly. Just because you don't want something doesn't mean that it's "Bad for People".

You may think that its "Bad for You", but what is "Good for You" is "Bad For Some Others".