D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Zaukrie]

It’s also their self-imposed sense of “responsibility” that they’re using to excuse not opening Athas up to DM’s Guild, just the fan content policy. Smothering it in responsibility.

To what end? What's the upside for them? If you want DS content, you can find it free out there. This is a simple business decision. Business 101 level stuff. High risk, little reward.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Athas didn't suffer climate change in any way like what is happening on Earth. It suffered climate destruction via defiling magic. No different than if you made a setting where a nuclear war happened and the climate was desolate because of past radiation. It's simply a post-apocalyptic setting.

No. It's explicitly explained as gradual rather than cataclysmic (or both), and that it's still ongoing because Defilers and defiling still exists. Where life does blossom, defilers can still kill it.

It's absolutely different to a post-nuclear-war setting - or at least most of them (I don't rule out the possibility there's a more similar one I'm not thinking of).

Climate change was directly mentioned as part of the marketing for Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden and nobody batted an eye (not that that adventure actually handled its climate change allegory well, but it was there).

You got a link? That's interesting if true.

Note it needs to be anthropogenic climate change, not "an evil god did it" or something.

Even if they somehow cut slavery and eugenics for the 5E version of Dark Sun, which imo would be a tall order, it wouldn't stop the hit pieces from coming.

'WOTC relaunches setting based on slavery and eugenics!"
"DYK? In the original Dark Sun, slave masters breed humans with dwarves to create a perfect race of sterile slave workers!"

I just don't buy that's the real risk they're concerned about, because Dark Sun is actually weirdly popular with lefty RPG Twitter and related people, and having gotten rid of slavery etc. would be seen as a good thing by both the left, and amusingly, the right (c.f. "Critical Race Theory" etc.).

Whereas having a whole setting whose entire premise is anthropogenic climate change which is still ongoing is a much more potentially concern-troll-able-issue. Especially as the climate-changers in DS are still around, and indeed, the vast majority of the Sorcerer-Lords have either straight-up used or de facto benefited from defiling, even as they kill defilers and so on.

 

[Burnside]

No. It's explicitly explained as gradual rather than cataclysmic (or both), and that it's still ongoing because Defilers and defiling still exists. Where life does blossom, defilers can still kill it.

It's absolutely different to a post-nuclear-war setting - or at least most of them (I don't rule out the possibility there's a more similar one I'm not thinking of).

You got a link? That's interesting if true.

Note it needs to be anthropogenic climate change, not "an evil god did it" or something.

I just don't buy that's the real risk they're concerned about, because Dark Sun is actually weirdly popular with lefty RPG Twitter and related people, and having gotten rid of slavery etc. would be seen as a good thing by both the left, and amusingly, the right (c.f. "Critical Race Theory" etc.).

Whereas having a whole setting whose entire premise is anthropogenic climate change which is still ongoing is a much more potentially concern-troll-able-issue.

No, it doesn't "need to be antropogenic climate change." It's an allegory.

Here's Ashley Warren, one of the lead writers on Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden:

Brink says they can't do Dark Sun because of their ethical and inclusion standards. Which things are more likely to be flagged by WotC's ethical and inclusion standards? Slavery, eugenics, or climate change?

 

[avaz]

WOTC is right. They would be tarred and feathered if they brought this setting back to life and they really can't handle any more negative publicity.

Unfortunately, this results in a real waste of a great setting for us.

 

[jerryrice4949]

This. There's very little upside for the risk. How much money could they even make off this setting? Also, every release in DS is a release they don't make in another setting. There is zero reason for them to release more DS content.

I think that is the crux of it. A lot of changes would be needed to make it palatable and then most die hard DS fans wouldn’t even like or buy it. New players have no attachment to the setting so I am not sure who the market would be for a heavily revised Dark Sun.

 

[Maxperson]

How many times since they shifted design direction with Tasha's? WotC seems like they'd really like us to forget everything before then.

Tasha's mentions slavery as something that can be in game but should be talked about. Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes which was released after Tasha's and held to be the 5.5e standard mentions Githyanki and Githzerai as being in servitude(slaves) to Mind Flayers. Duergar are mentioned to have been held in captivity and torment by Mind Flayers. Neogi have a societal belief that one needs to control others and have a power called Enslave.

They don't seem to be shying away from it.

 

[DorkForge]

I think one of the hurdles contributing to it would probably be saying no to certain races and having a heavier hand in modifying the base game experience. They've just tended to adding things to base game instead of removing or changing in settings so far.

 

[tetrasodium]

D&d 5e as a system fights hard against darksun (even more so than eberron) could you imagine how fast the whole scarcity would go off the rails with a couple of outlanders supporting a freaking town? Or the outrage if a gm denied rests in the middle of a desert while theocal SK's elite forces are searching for & findiythem while under rustic hospatity? One d&d seems like it's being written. To be more modular though so a full drop in replacement. Ight support it better

 

[Burnside]

I think one of the hurdles contributing to it would probably be saying no to certain races and having a heavier hand in modifying the base game experience. They've just tended to adding things to base game instead of removing or changing in settings so far.

They do pretty much remove many races as player options for both the Theros book and the new Dragonlance book. They don't outright ban races, but they do say. "Here's the short list of races that are native to the setting - if you want to play something not on this list, talk your DM and see if there's a reason your character could be there."

 

[DorkForge]

They do pretty much remove many races as player options for both the Theros book and the new Dragonlance book. They don't outright ban races, but they do say. "Here's the short list of races that are native to the setting - if you want to play something not on this list, talk your DM and see if there's a reason your character could be there."

That's very different than a flat no, or flat no they've already been genocided.