WotC_PeterS talks about his "aggresive playtest" (with Le Rouse, SKR, & Noonan)

[Gort]

Agreed. They never really worked out what they wanted polymorph to do, or how massively it can impact the game. What was the point in being an ogre and taking the associated level penalty, when a human fighter can get polymorphed into a fire giant and be far better off, with no level adjustment at all?

I'm just amazed that it never got properly fixed.

 

[shilsen]

By the time the problem is pinpointed a group may already have experienced weeks of unfun play and the DM's hard work on the campaign may already have been seriously compromised. As someone who doesn't like the idea of retconning several play sessions worth of events to rewind the campaign to an acceptable point, that doesn't seem like the best available option.

This is something which intrigued me. Say your group has played a dozen sessions with it increasingly obvious that the wizard's combo of spells X and Y and feat Z is broken. The DM talks to the player about the problem and they change or drop some out of X, Y and Z and the game continues. Why would there need to be any retconning or rewinding? It's not like the campaign is a novel or a show on television where you'll have irate viewers complaining about the change and internal continuity.

You are an optimist on a level I never am. Were all calls this obviously exaggerated there would be no issue. There would be no discussion. The calls are rarely (never?) this clear. *shrug*

I'm not Baron Opal, but in my experience, such calls are always this clear for me as a DM, and they're nearly always so clear that they never even show up in my game, since I can make the call as soon as a player runs it by me.

 

[allenw]

Friday will blow minds.

I wish I could be online to watch but I will be duck hunting in Montana

So, Scott: Would I be correct to assume that the huge outcry over "Elven Perception Auras" wasn't *quite* the reaction you were hoping for?

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

So, Scott: Would I be correct to assume that the huge outcry over "Elven Perception Auras" wasn't *quite* the reaction you were hoping for?

It only proves that some people are impossible to please.

The "Perception Aura" is a tiny bit of the the whole thing. And its a lot better than "detect secret doors"

The majority of us are quite happy with the elf writeup.

 

[Wolfspider]

It only proves that some people are impossible to please.

The "Perception Aura" is a tiny bit of the the whole thing. And its a lot better than "detect secret doors"

The majority of us are quite happy with the elf writeup.

Yeah! Down with dissent! Majority rules!

Who do these people think they are, having an opinion that differs from the norm?

The nerve!

 

[Rechan]

Yeah! Down with dissent! Majority rules!

Who do these people think they are, having an opinion that differs from the norm?

The nerve!

Because saying "Pleasing some people is impossible, most of us don't mind it" = "People who have opinions that differ from the norm are out of line."

Methinks you're being a bit too defensive.

 

[Wolfspider]

Because saying "Pleasing some people is impossible, most of us don't mind it" = "People who have opinions that differ from the norm are out of line."

Methinks you're being a bit too defensive.

"It proves that some people are impossible to please." is the exact quote.

I dunno. That seems pretty snobbish to me. If I say I don't like something--say, a movie, or a pizza, or whatever--and someone says to me, "You are impossible to please," well, I would be a bit miffed if I thought my complaints were reasonable. That comment seems much too much like a total dismissal of my opinion.

I think the complaints I've read about the elven perception aura (at least as we understand it now) seem pretty reasonable. How exactly does this bonus manifest? The only way that I can envision it is the "ear twitching" mentioned earlier, and that seems ludicrous. Also, what if the elf fails his perception check to notice an ambush or whatever but someone else in his party makes it, in part because of the bonus that the elf has given him? How does that work exactly?

It may be that all of these things are explained in perfectly clear detail in the 4e books. I sure hope they are.

As of now, though, some people have questions. I am one of those people.

But what do I know? I'm impossible to please.

 

[Rechan]

"It proves that some people are impossible to please." is the exact quote.

I dunno. That seems pretty snobbish to me. If I say I don't like something--say, a movie, or a pizza, or whatever--and someone says to me, "You are impossible to please," well, I would be a bit miffed if I thought my complaints were reasonable. That comment seems much too much like a total dismissal of my opinion.

It doesn't sound snobby to me.

Not to put words in Amphimir Míriel's mouth, but I believe his point is that with a huge chunk of material, a big fat slab of Fluff Text and Crunch text, the majority of the discussion zeroed in and revolved around a single line of text! That's nitpicking.

There's an old adage, "You can't please everyone." I'm a firm believer that people, by nature, are pessimistic and will find something to complain about. Because, quite frankly, complaining is fun. It doesn't matter if it's a legitimate complaint, or "That guy was perfect - but I still didn't like his tie". But then, I'm a veteran of political discussions, and so I'm used to seeing complaints for complaint's sake, arguments for argument's sake, and having nothing positive to say whatsoever.

Negative thoughts or comments stick out in our mind a lot better than positive ones - that's why if you receive 10 complements and 1 negative comment, it's the latter that will stick out in your mind.

And you can't tell me that you have never met someone who always has something negative to say. The perverbial stereotypical Mother In Law whose only complements are back-handed.

The "Aura of perception" is no less silly, or ludicrous, than a free Detect Secret Doors. Or Dwarves inherent stonecunning checks, even if your dwarf was born on a boat in the middle of the ocean and has never sat foot below sea level. And yet it's the biggest thing talked about out of all that fluff and crunch.

 

[Wolfspider]

And you can't tell me that you have never met someone who always has something negative to say.

Well, I could, but I'd be lying just to make you cry.

 

[McBard]

...with a huge chunk of material, a big fat slab of Fluff Text and Crunch text, the majority of the discussion zeroed in and revolved around a single line of text! That's nitpicking.

...or playtesting, of a sort. In any event, I bet WoTC will take another look (even if just a glance) at the Elven Perception Aura ability because of the reaction.