Unearthed Arcana WotC's Mearls Presents A New XP System For 5E In August's Unearthed Arcana

I have to say...not terribly impressed with this month's article...

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-ThreePillarXP.pdf

I think my thread should be closed. So I repeat myself here:
Streamlined and probably very useful. I think level 1 and 2 should get an accelerator. Should be considered tier 0 probably.

 

[Argyle King]

I think it's interesting to see different numbers associated with XP, but I feel that I do not understand the benefit of using the alternative system.

 

[Monayuris]

What I find interesting is that it is a step in the direction for recognizing that exploration, social interaction and treasure acquisition are means of gaining experience in addition to combat and story / milestone awards.

I've always found milestone awards to be arbitrary and agency destroying. Maybe I've just never seen it done correctly, but my experience is that the DM tells you to level up because you need to be higher level to handle the next chapter or something. I feel like my actions and choices made in the game don't really matter at all.

I suppose for the story line adventures, milestone leveling useful since you have to keep characters up with the level requirements for each chapter. I just don't enjoy the experience.

This alternate system would work in a sandbox style game. Especially if you explicitly stated the tiers for various locations. If you specify 5 areas on the map and which tiers they are to explore, you give players a good idea of what to expect from the locations and enough information to determine their risk/reward level.

For example, if the Necromancer's Cove is a Tier 2 location, its XP reward and its difficulty can be estimated and considered. The treasure map leads to a Tier 3 location but it is rumored to be a Tier 2 treasure... etc.

 

[Sunseeker]

Are tables still not rewarding XP for non-combat experiences? I mean honestly the only way I've ever been able to reach the 6-8 encounters per "day" without turning the game into a grindfest is to make at least half of them non-combat experiences. Players should be rewarded for their success at diplomacy, deception, deduction, and dedication to tasks that do not involve "hitting it with a stick". You've never going to convince players to not be murderhobos until you start awarding them loot and XP for participation, completion and success in non-combat areas of the game.

It's amazing how much progress Wizards can undo every edition. I mean we just had an edition that rewarded XP based on resolution of the encounter (even going as far as to reward non-combat encounter resolutions to combat encounters the same as combat!) and specifically called out non-combat elements to be included AND rewarded. Yet here we are, trying to reinvent the wheel, wondering just how we can get the other aspects of the game more involved.

Mearls, as usual, presents an interesting alternative to the obvious, but like much in 5E feels like a painstaking attempt to miss the obvious and frankly, easiest solution that not only reduces grind, but moves players away from finding combat to be the only means of level-based progression.

The wheel was found to be most useful as a circle. Why would I ever want to use an oval?

 

[Nathan Gaudry]

I think it's interesting to see different numbers associated with XP, but I feel that I do not understand the benefit of using the alternative system.

I honestly don't think there is one. On the other hand, though, the Social and Exploration rules map really nicely to Milestone Experience (not Story-Based Leveling that people commonly call Milestones). Just award a Hard Encounter's worth of XP for the triggers they list (or two encounters if it's a tier above). I appreciate having the triggers, and I think it'll help ensure my players and I are on the same page about what Milestones are supposed to achieve.

But, no, I don't see a good reason to use the 100 point scale (and a few good reasons not to).

 

[Monayuris]

I honestly don't think there is one. On the other hand, though, the Social and Exploration rules map really nicely to Milestone Experience (not Story-Based Leveling that people commonly call Milestones). Just award a Hard Encounter's worth of XP for the triggers they list (or two encounters if it's a tier above). I appreciate having the triggers, and I think it'll help ensure my players and I are on the same page about what Milestones are supposed to achieve.

But, no, I don't see a good reason to use the 100 point scale (and a few good reasons not to).

I actually just re-read the experience section in the DMG.

I was mistaken about Milestone Experience... it is Story Based leveling that I have experienced in the past and disliked. The 5E DMG provides plenty of guidance for non-combat experience awards.

I think you are right that we probably don't need the revamped XP scale, but I do like how this system does explicitly break out awards into the three pillars and includes treasure as a part of exploration. As you implied, this is something you can put in front of your players and state this is what you need to do to get XP in this campaign, and just let them loose.

I'd probably incorporate the new document's Tiers (provide at least 4 but probably more) but use existing XP award recommendations... perhaps equate each Tier to a Hard Encounter XP amount for a set level (Tier1 = a Level 1 Hard Encounter, Tier8 a Level 16 Hard Encounter, etc).

Exploration Milestones:
1. Discover a new location in the wilderness - Tiered based on distance or difficulty to reach.
2. Discover a path to the next lower level of the dungeon - Tiered based on level depth.
3. Discover a sublevel or secret area in an known location.

Treasure Milestones:
1. Retrieve a significant horde - Tiered based on value or maybe just award XP for the GP value of the treasure, old-school style.
2. Finding a 'named' weapon or 'naming' a weapon you possess. - Tiered to power or legend of the item?
3. Finding artifacts important to cultures and institutions of the world. - Tiered to the age of the artifact.

Social Milestones:
1. Establish Friendly relations with a significant faction or NPC - Tiered based on strength of the faction.
2. Overcome a Hostile reaction from a significant faction or NPC - Tiered based on the strength of the faction.
3. Learn a significant lore from a social interaction with a faction or NPC - Tiered to the obscurity of the lore.

Combat Milestones:
1. Defeat or overcome a challenging foe - Tiered to encounter difficulty (Medium, Hard or Deadly... no experience for easy or trivial encounters).
2. Overcome and resolve a threat to a friendly settlement or homestead - Tiered to the size of the settlement.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Are tables still not rewarding XP for non-combat experiences? I mean honestly the only way I've ever been able to reach the 6-8 encounters per "day" without turning the game into a grindfest is to make at least half of them non-combat experiences.

As an aside, I'm surprised to see the "6-8 encounters per day" trope still around. If you stick to even moderately interesting encounters it's hard to fit more than 3-5 encounters into the typical adventuring day's budget, per DMG guidelines. "6-8 encounters per day" was sort of a semi-okay rule of thumb back when 5E came out, especially before they revised the encounter rules to turn difficulty ceilings into difficulty thresholds somewhere around Basic 0.2ish, but by the time the DMG came out that guideline was totally obsolete.

 

[thekindgm]

It's a really good idea but it's still lacking, in my opinion. It offers limited options for the explanation and social interaction pillars. However, it could be combined with the milestones system in order to provide ideas on how to use it better.

Sent from my iQ9011_2 using EN World mobile app

 

[OB1]

There is also the follow up scene. The rogue sneaks off and kills 50 chickens, wiping out all the poultry of two farmers. The farmers, irate at losing half their breakfast and livelihood, raise an angry mob to chase the villager out of town or arrest them for the slaughter.
Killing a chicken has derailed more than one game of Skyrim for me... Don't see why mass poultricide is forgivable here.

They wouldn't need to raise a mob, as every farmer would be a level 20 character!

Thinking about it, that might make for an interesting campaign setting. Farmer God Kings who tightly control who can slaughter animals for food to prevent the unworthy from leveling up and challenging them for their land.

 

[robus]

Its better then milestone leveling I guess.

Agreed - milestone leveling really drills home to the players that they're on a linear path and must jump through the DMs hoops to level. It's starting to grate with me as I feel too powerful in the relationship. "You level when I say you level!"

This might redress the balance.

 

[Over the Hill Gamer]

I think this demonstrates a weakness with leveling systems. Why should one receive xps for having a great rp "scene" when the reward for advancing a level is greater power in combat? It doesn't make much logical sense. I guess in a skill-based system a great rp scene might be reflected in advancement in a socially based skill like persuasion.

Why should a fighter go up a level for achieving social, exploration, and treasure milestones when his/her business is combat? The same idea applies to wizards and most other character classes.

Since D&D is a class-based and level-based system perhaps some consideration should be given to creating "social classes" where social xps -- for great RP or the achievement of social and treasure goals -- could be reflected. So you could have a 5th lvl fighter who is also a 2nd lvl "Leader," for instance. Perhaps some non-combat supplemental classes could be created -- explorer, leader, etc. Once you achieve some social xps you could choose a supplemental class. Perhaps working within the existing system of professions might make sense.

There should be rewards for great rp but also for winning fortunes (stealing stuff), exploration, achieving goals outside of combat, but the existing class system does a poor job of reflecting that when the rewards are typically reflected in combat power.

Just an idea.