I'll preface with: I sincerely prefer Pathfinder in this regard. The spell text is significantly shorter and much clearer in what exactly happens. Yes yes I know that this is a 3.5 not a 3.75 thread but the two are far too similar to make the distinction worth anything significant.
No. I'm telling you that your flesh altered and repositioned and otherwise rearranged so that you are NOT a physically functional member of the chosen species. You just superficially look like a functional member of the chosen species, and have a few largely superficial traits of the chosen species
First, this is inaccurate by the 3.5 SRD spell description linked in the OP, to quote:
SRD as linked in the OP said:
You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.
So, basically what the spell text is saying is 100% contradictory to what you are claiming it says. Your elf flesh is not altered into simply appearing to be a hard, chitenous exoskeleton, it literally BECOMES a hard chitinous exoskeleton. Your dainty elfy fingers do not simply appear to be razor-sharp claws, they BECOME razor sharp claws. Your pretty elf teeth do not simply appear to be gruesome mandibles nor do they simply give off the latent potential of a bite attack. You have 100% functional mandibles that give you a 100% natural bite attack.
SRD said:
You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth
You may be reading too much into this line, where I do not gain any particular extraordinary qualities of species I transformed into. I personally find this line almost contradictory to the previous one, which is why I prefer Pathfinder. If my skin becomes true chitenous armor, then when my eyes become buggy, how come they don't work like it? I find it jarring. Again: this is why I rule as such at my table.
No, it doesn't. That's the point. If you read the text, you'll discover you don't really get any of the bug-man's traits and qualities.
Actually, you gain quite a few, but all of them physical and related to your actual magical transformation into a physical member of the species.
So if Bug-Men are capable of seeing in the dark, have an acute sense of smell, and produce venom, your rearranged elf flesh can't do any of that.
Those are extraordinary, often supernatural qualities. Given that every species is capable of reproduction, I wouldn't consider the ability to reproduce any more spectacular than a natural bite attack. Hence why
IMO if you gain a natural claw or bite, or even flight, you would certainly be functional downstairs.
Likewise, if bug-men are Vermin, your type remains humanoid. The only actual type you can gain from alter self is the sub-type aquatic.
Which was not something I disagreed with. Perhaps suggesting that
Likewise, if you use alter self to change your gender from human male to human female, you have the external genitalia of a human female, but you don't gain the extraordinary quality of say producing milk or having ovaries or a womb, because Alter Self only produces superficial resemblance. That's a ruling, but its a ruling consistent with the text of the spell.
You're saying that those are extra-ordinary qualities, not the rules. I'm saying that given that every species has reproductive qualities, these are not "rare and species-exclusive" abilities that would be restricted by the rules text. Hence, I do not feel that when transforming into another species or the opposite sex or both, that these would not be traits you do not gain. Further, if we want to get really nitty-gritty, males of mammalian species DO produce milk, their capabilities are simply underdeveloped. How is this different from transforming from a species with wings that do not allow it to fly(say, a Tiefling) to a species with wings that do(such as a Strix)? Further, if we want to get scientific about it, the testes and the ovaries are same organ, altered through specific processes during birth to become one or the other. If "Alter-self" can turn my skin into chitenous armor, I don't see why it can't turn my testes into ovaries or vice-versua.
Though, again, I've pointed out the inconsistencies within the rules themselves. If my skin is physically transforming into chiton, why are my eyes somehow only altering in shape but not quality? Again: this is why I like the Pathfinder rules, they are more internally consistent.
No, disguise self is basically a glamor. Alter self produces an actual physical change, say you sprout wings, but it doesn't produce any real deep change in your essential nature.
I don't find your argument that sexual organs are "deep change in your essential nature" to be convincing. The rules merely state that type and species really remain the same. There is really nothing said about your sex.
Sure. But your ruling is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what alter self does.
Frankly, from the quotes I've provided, I don't believe it is I who has a misunderstand of the spell.
The text is quite specific that you gain none of the qualities of the new form.
Actually the text is quite specific that you do, including but not limited to:
Natural armor.
Natural attacks.
Movement speeds.
Modes of Movement(flight, tunneling).
Gross Physical qualities.
You just gain the physical appearance of the new form.
That is quite simply, FALSE, flat on it's face, false. I suggest you re-read the rules text, particularly the sections I've quoted above, where you gain quite a bit of traits related to that physical appearance.
Your limbs for example can largely function, but in no way necessarily as well as the form you've adopted. If Bug-Men have 4 arms, you'll be able to control the extra two, but because you haven't actually become a Bug-Man but are still an elf, you won't be able to control them as well as a Bug-Man.
But my point had nothing to do with skill, only capability.
If you look at the text of higher level shape change spells, you'll see some or all of these restrictions are lifted - you really become the thing you change into.
For the most part, that opens up supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.
Reproduction certainly isn't supernatural, it's not spell-like, and I would consider reproduction far more mundane than even poison. The base words of "extraordinary" are "extra" and "ordinary", which mean essentially "out of the ordinary". Would you suggest that reproduction is out of the ordinary, something that does
not happen on a regular basis, or possibly even
abnormal? I would not. It is as natural to every species as is breathing or eating. Perhaps with magical creatures, such as dragons, demons(not devils though, as Succubi and others can freely get pregnant as mortals do), or angels this would not apply since their mode of reproduction is magical. But reproduction is hardly a miracle, and certainly not an extraordinary ability of the vast majority of species.
