What if Champions level 3 ability increased their crit range to 19-20, and made their criticals hit for 3x the number of dice, instead of 2x? Since flat damage increases represent a significant portion of the damage spread in 5e, this would not necessarily be game breaking, but on average it would increase the viability of crit-Champions without needing specific magic items or multiclassing. Would this be overpowered, or would it fix them?
D&D 5E Would this fix Champion?
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Nope, that wouldn't fix Champion. That addresses damage which is not a problem that Champions have. Champions do quite well for damage.
BTW, Battle Master is a bit front loaded, getting a big boost early on, so it's easy to think Champion is at fault since they are both fighter subclasses. But try comparing to other weapon classes. Especially in the later game, such as at 11th when a 3rd attack really bypasses the other 11th level weapon boosts.
BTW, Battle Master is a bit front loaded, getting a big boost early on, so it's easy to think Champion is at fault since they are both fighter subclasses. But try comparing to other weapon classes. Especially in the later game, such as at 11th when a 3rd attack really bypasses the other 11th level weapon boosts.
Horwath
Legend
Problem of the champion in not the power. He has sustainable power.
Problem is that the class is "boring", that is there is no decision making except who to attack.
No "active" abilities except action surge.
You just roll the dice and hope for the best.
Maybe add skill or two so he can have some more combat and out of combat options. Or expertise in one fighter class skill that he has trained. Or one attack reroll per short rest. Anything to have player make active decision in addition to making an attack.
Problem is that the class is "boring", that is there is no decision making except who to attack.
No "active" abilities except action surge.
You just roll the dice and hope for the best.
Maybe add skill or two so he can have some more combat and out of combat options. Or expertise in one fighter class skill that he has trained. Or one attack reroll per short rest. Anything to have player make active decision in addition to making an attack.
AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
You can't fix what isn't broken, so no, this wouldn't fix the champion.
And no, please don't go saying the champion needs more "active" abilities - that's like saying a screwdriver needs more heft and a dedicated striking surface; if you want a hammer, use a hammer, don't try to turn a screwdriver into a hammer.
And no, please don't go saying the champion needs more "active" abilities - that's like saying a screwdriver needs more heft and a dedicated striking surface; if you want a hammer, use a hammer, don't try to turn a screwdriver into a hammer.
fuindordm
Adventurer
One minor change that I think would be cool:
Instead of "Remarkable Athlete" giving a flat bonus, it gives the PC advantage on any ability score check involving Str, Dex, or Con. Recharges on a short rest. Usable 2x or 3x/short rest at higher levels.
Now a choice is involved. Do you really need to leap that gorge? Then you probably can.
Ben
Instead of "Remarkable Athlete" giving a flat bonus, it gives the PC advantage on any ability score check involving Str, Dex, or Con. Recharges on a short rest. Usable 2x or 3x/short rest at higher levels.
Now a choice is involved. Do you really need to leap that gorge? Then you probably can.
Ben
Charles Rampant
Explorer
I can't agree more with this. I loved playing the Champion in a one-shot, it is the kind of class that I really enjoy - simple, characterful, allows me to concentrate on what is happening with the rest of the combat. Is it boring? Well, to some - but not to others.
I think that high level Rogues are kind of boring, once they get access to invisibility and can just stand still and bonus-action hide in the same spot all day, but my Rogue player seems to love it so clearly he doesn't think so. I certainly wouldn't go around trying to change the class, just because I personally wouldn't enjoy it.
Oofta
Legend
Just going to hop on the "Champions don't need fixing" bandwagon. I really enjoy playing my champion, it doesn't need fixing.
I don't think "complex" means "better". Running something relatively simple lets me sit back, enjoy the game and throw more RP into the fight without having to overthink tactics. It's relaxing and fun. If I want more options I'll take some feats, multiclass, or just run a different character.
I don't think "complex" means "better". Running something relatively simple lets me sit back, enjoy the game and throw more RP into the fight without having to overthink tactics. It's relaxing and fun. If I want more options I'll take some feats, multiclass, or just run a different character.
DaedalusX51
Explorer
I just want to respectfully point out that while you and others do not find issues with the perceived inadequacies of the Champion subclass, there are those of us that do and it is hampering our enjoyment of the subclass. I think instead of telling us that it is not a problem, it would help us all to be happier with the game if we could set aside our biases and help each other make the game fun for everyone.
For my home game, I have merged both the Champion and Battle Master into a single subclass. In addition I have implemented most of the combat feats as maneuvers in the Fighter class and have changed the Martial adept feat to allow you to gain two maneuvers.
My version of the Fighter class is below.
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJ5Cy7zLx
Hopefully we can find some fixes for the Champion in this thread for the people who want them.
