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Would this fix Champion?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6993577" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I certainly see the 2e fighter's crazy DPR reflected in the Champion (if not the style that got it there, quite so much). The BM falls so far short of the 4e PH1 Fighter, it's sad. It's not too far off the downgraded Essentials take, though. </p><p></p><p>Yes! I'm glad someone else has noticed. I understand that the 3e fighter suffered by comparison to the wildly overpowered casters of that edition, but the design, itself, was elegant & customizeable, and the characters you could build with it so much more varied interesting that what you could do with the 2e & earlier fighter (even with kits).</p><p></p><p>I guess that's somewhat plausible.</p><p></p><p>To be fair, you do get a Style choice right off.</p><p></p><p>Aslo, to be fair, the only fighter-only feat in 3e was specialization. It wasn't so much the unique feats as the sheer number - more than double the usual.</p><p></p><p>Wow. To me, the BM feels nothing like the 4e PH1 Fighter, but does feel a bit like the Essentials Knight (just without the defender role support) or, perhaps, Slayer, thanks to the DPR. No dailies, no at-wills, very little choice in what it can do with it's 'encounters.' </p><p></p><p>IMHO, what's really needed is a full class that's not locked into DPR as primary function (thus, doesn't have a sub-class, like the Champion, for whom it is sole significant function).</p><p></p><p>And increasing the Champion's DPR would hurt (no, not just the monsters), it'd eventually make it 'overpowered' - long before it would make up for what the Champion lacks in other areas. It's an untenable design, in that sense. </p><p></p><p>Supposedly it exists for new players as a sort of 'training wheels' option, and for players who just want a very simple character. Why it's assumed those players only ever want to pay fighters is, presumably, because that's been the only such option in the past.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6993577, member: 996"] I certainly see the 2e fighter's crazy DPR reflected in the Champion (if not the style that got it there, quite so much). The BM falls so far short of the 4e PH1 Fighter, it's sad. It's not too far off the downgraded Essentials take, though. Yes! I'm glad someone else has noticed. I understand that the 3e fighter suffered by comparison to the wildly overpowered casters of that edition, but the design, itself, was elegant & customizeable, and the characters you could build with it so much more varied interesting that what you could do with the 2e & earlier fighter (even with kits). I guess that's somewhat plausible. To be fair, you do get a Style choice right off. Aslo, to be fair, the only fighter-only feat in 3e was specialization. It wasn't so much the unique feats as the sheer number - more than double the usual. Wow. To me, the BM feels nothing like the 4e PH1 Fighter, but does feel a bit like the Essentials Knight (just without the defender role support) or, perhaps, Slayer, thanks to the DPR. No dailies, no at-wills, very little choice in what it can do with it's 'encounters.' IMHO, what's really needed is a full class that's not locked into DPR as primary function (thus, doesn't have a sub-class, like the Champion, for whom it is sole significant function). And increasing the Champion's DPR would hurt (no, not just the monsters), it'd eventually make it 'overpowered' - long before it would make up for what the Champion lacks in other areas. It's an untenable design, in that sense. Supposedly it exists for new players as a sort of 'training wheels' option, and for players who just want a very simple character. Why it's assumed those players only ever want to pay fighters is, presumably, because that's been the only such option in the past. [/QUOTE]
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