Would you allow a sneak attack on this situation ?

[MoonZar]

The group of adventurer are walking a corridor, one of them is a rogue PC who use a bow.

A group of goblin live nearby and one of their scout spoted the PC group without been notice. He go back to the goblin lair to tell the other goblins. Then the goblins leader prepare his troop, they are making line with spear and shield in a room. They take the full defense action.

The goblin are still in full defence and are ready to attack. A couple of round later the PC open the door where the goblin lives.

As the DM i'm asking them to roll the init. The rogue of the group is the first one to attack and ask me if he could do a sneak attack.

I said NO, because the goblins are ready in full defence since a couple of round. He didn't like this decision and complain about this.

As the DM would you allow the rogue to make a sneak attack ?

 

[Nail]

Yes (provisionally).

You can't ready an action outside of combat.....so no "full defence" nonesense for the goblins. You roll init, and the goblins are flat-footed until their initiative comes up.

You could have ruled the PCs were surprised. Since you didn't; Rogue should have gained a sneak attack because he caught the goblins flat-footed.

 

[MoonZar]

Yes (provisionally).

You can't ready an action outside of combat.....so no "full defence" nonesense for the goblins. You roll init, and the goblins are flat-footed until their initiative comes up.

You could have ruled the PCs were surprised. Since you didn't; Rogue should have gained a sneak attack because he caught the goblins flat-footed.

The PC was surprise ! But the goblin wanted to wait to see if they attack first or they want to talk.

 

[Pielorinho]

Two answers, Moonzar:

1) By the rules, combat begins when the two sides encounter each other. The goblins are flatfooted at the beginning of combat. The rogue gets a sneak-attack, as the goblins peer over the tops of their shields. (Note that if they're tower shields that they're cowering behind, they get full cover and can't be sneak-attacked at all).
2) Also by the rules, however, the goblins could begin combat early by punching one another in the arm, thereby getting to roll initiative; as soon as they've rolled, they can all ready an action to attack the next person who comes into the room. This is goofy, but if it's the only way for them to avoid being flatfooted, they just might do it.

I therefore technically side with your player, but strongly encourage a houserule that folks aren't flatfooted in circumstances such as the ones you describe: if you know that combat is going to begin and have at least six seconds (one round) to prepare for its beginning, you can rid yourself of flatfootedosity. This keeps you from getting arm-punched.

Daniel

 

[dcollins]

Agree with Nail, the answer is "yes". Technically, at the point where you call for initiative, everyone must be flat-footed. If the rogue rolls highest initiative, then he gets to sneak attack.

Now, if you had decided that initiative was rolled at the moment the scout sees the opposition, then that could possibly be a different story.

 

[Pielorinho]

The PC was surprise ! But the goblin wanted to wait to see if they attack first or they want to talk.

Ah, that changes things! If the PCs were surprised, then the goblins acted during the surprise round, even if they chose to do nothing beyond be in full defense mode. Once the first round began, the goblins were not flatfooted. Perhaps you should tell the player that the goblins obtained a surprise round; that might satisfy his worry.

Daniel

 

[MoonZar]

Ah, that changes things! If the PCs were surprised, then the goblins acted during the surprise round, even if they chose to do nothing beyond be in full defense mode. Once the first round began, the goblins were not flatfooted. Perhaps you should tell the player that the goblins obtained a surprise round; that might satisfy his worry.

Daniel

Okay i think that the good answer i was seeking to give explanation to the pc.

 

[somekindofjerk]

Since the goblins gave up their surprise round in order to discern the PCs intent, both groups would start flat-footed. Had the party rogue been hiding already and set apart from the rest of the party a bit, he could certainly get the drop on the goblins, as they are busy trying to parlay with the adventurers.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Combat begins, as Pielhorinho says, when the two sides encounter each other. However, if the PCs had listened at the door first and heard the goblins, then combat begins. Both sides should roll initiative at this point, even if they don't bother to open the door right away. If only the goblins know about the PCs, roll initiative for them anyway, and then have them ready actions, go on full defense, or whatever else they like. Then, the PCs enter combat using the rules for adding new groups to combat. Note that on p.22 of the DMG there are rules for what to do if one side has advance warning of the other: the DM decides what they can accomplish in that time. So if you, the DM, say they can go on "full defense", then they can. On top of that, in this situation, they would also get a surprise round.

 

[MoonZar]

Since the goblins gave up their surprise round in order to discern the PCs intent, both groups would start flat-footed. Had the party rogue been hiding already and set apart from the rest of the party a bit, he could certainly get the drop on the goblins, as they are busy trying to parlay with the adventurers.

Even if you gave up surprise round you still acted and are not flat-foot from now on...