Would YOU allow multiple picks of a 'Vancian' power?

[Tuft]

With Vancian magic, you could pick a spell several times to get multiple uses of it during one rest-to-rest period.

Would you let players in your group do the same with their 'Vancian' (i.e., use once per time period) powers?

For example, the group's rogue loves the Tumble per-encounter power above everything, and would like to pick that power multiple times for multiple uses. What would your opinon, as DM or co-player, be?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Perhaps... I would really need all the rules, and such to see, but perhaps... It is sorta anti-the idea of more variety in combat though.

If I was to do so though, it would go like this:

At-will powers can only be picked several times to the maximum of at-will powers allowed.

Per-encounter powers can only be picked several times to the maximum of per-encounter powers allowed.

Per-day powers can only be picked several times to the maximum of per-day powers allow.

 

[Surgoshan]

Or the DM can do his darndest to make sure that monsters learn, and the encounter powers and daily powers really only can be used the one time.

 

[Cadfan]

I'd permit it, if restrictions like level of power were being followed. If a 10th level character is supposed to know two per day powers, one of 5th level and one of 1st level, I wouldn't let the player double up on 5th level powers unless the rules permitted that in some manner.

So, yes, as long as it was being done because the player wanted the ability, rather than as an effort to swindle me into powering him up.

I might ask the player WHY they wanted to double up on a power, though. Seems counterproductive in a way.

 

[TerraDave]

I think that is how force powers work in SAGA.

I would tentatively say yes...but I am guessing it would be costly. I mean, if you only have two really good per encounter abilities, do you want both to be the same?

 

[Dausuul]

I'd need to see the rules first, and see how they pan out in actual play. WotC seems to have decided that the best way to promote variety in combat is to mandate it by restricting each encounter power to a single use per combat; which is guaranteed to work, even if it feels a bit like a cop-out. So I would be a touch hesitant to assume that removing that mandate won't result in monotonous combat.

On the other hand, if it seems like players are using a variety of maneuvers on their own (i.e., sometimes they go for maneuver X first and other times maneuver Y), then I might go ahead and lift the restriction.

 

[joshuha]

It's also definitely possible that this is built somehow into the rules. I could imagine a paragon level feat that made a hero level encounter power have more uses or even convert a level 1 encounter power to at-will.

 

[Ingolf]

I think that is how force powers work in SAGA.

You are correct, but all Force powers in SWSE are per-encounter - and even then there are various means by which they can be refreshed during the encounter.

I'd probably allow it, the question is - when the player later figures out this was a mistake, do I let him un-do it? Or make him stick with his sub-optimal choice? Because picking a new power - how ever often you get to do that - is a bit more more significant a decision than a wizard prepping his spells - something he does every day.

Eh, I'm an easy-going DM. Chances are I let him reverse his earlier decision. What I am really hoping for is enough interesting and fun powers that no-one will want to take any of them twice, because by doing so he'll miss out on something else he could have taken.

 

[StarFyre]

was thinking of it

I was thinking of adding a type of vancian system on top of the 4e system however, i turned away from that.

Instead, players and I have decided on total rewrites of the wizard, and cleric classes, with some changes for the warlock.

These will fit in better with our visions of magic, casters, and our game world.

The wildmage was fairly simple and is almost done. The regular wizard is proving to be a bit of a problem...as we like some of 4E, some of older systems, and dislike the rest. Warlock, is more due to the added setting details we have/use.

Sanjay

 

[Warbringer]

Yes..

Just let your player choose which powers to ptake for that day (ala the Wizard). No need to worry about losing choices...

As to does it make game sense? Well I know their is a belief that opponents don't fall fo the same trick twice in a combat...the hell they don't. I've fought enough kumite to know that if a I find a weakness in my opponet that a good combination works on, I'll drop it on them 2 or 3 times.

Balance? Well if the powers are balanced to start, what's the harm

Now too much flexibility (ie I have 5 open encounter slots and just choose which to use at a time, max 5 in an encounter) would possibly slow down game play.