D&D 5E Would you be okay with class abilities that explicitly addressed multi-classing?

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Er...*looks at my own post, looks at yours, back at my post, then back at yours*...I was talking about multi-class characters and potential multi-classing, not single-classed characters?

Kinda scratching my head here on this one, am I missing something?

It goes a long way when you assume others are attempting to say something meaningful instead of just blowing hot air. To that end if you had taken a moment and asked yourself the point of me saying a feature like the OP proposed would be fine for a single classed fighter or paladin but that it would not be fine for some other classes that multiclass as fighter or Paladin then the point would be apparent. Some features are okay when dealing with a single class while not okay when dealing with a multiclass. So to make that playing field fair it helps to have tools available that can allow such features for single classed characters but limit them for multiclass ones.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

ad_hoc

(they/them)
Would you be okay with class abilities that explicitly addressed multi-classing?

Nope and I'm thankful it will never happen because multi-classing is optional.

I'm not clear on the point of the question though. I'm sure there is a market for people who want some multiclassing houserules. It's just going to be a very small market.
 

Jacob Lewis

Ye Olde GM
Would you be okay with class abilities that explicitly addressed multi-classing?
What exactly are you trying to address about it? That players shouldn't do it? That it doesn't work too well? Or that it works too good? Or that there aren't enough hoops to jump through? I think you need to be more specific about what it is you are trying to fix before you start fixing anything. That goes for any edition, any system, any problem.

Cinematic Defence: a single-classed Fighter may use her Proficiency Bonus instead of her Dex bonus when calculating AC; a multi-class Fighter may only use a +2 bonus instead of her Dex bonus.
First, terrible name. How about Armor Expertise?

So why would a Fighter with a higher Dex bonus take this? They wouldn't. At least not until their Proficiency Bonus exceeded their Dex bonus, or at least the limitation of the armor they wear.

Which leads to another question: When/how do they take this? Is it automatic for all Fighters? If so, at which level? Or is it a Feat? You need to explain this more clearly, or give it some more thought.

Divine Agility: a single-classed Paladin may use her Charisma bonus instead of her Dex bonus when calculating AC; a multi-classed Paladin may not.
So why would a Paladin NOT take this? Because most Paladins are going to have a higher Charisma bonus since many of their other abilities rely on this attribute already. And if they multi-class, then they suddenly lose this ability, not just make it worse like the one for Fighters above? That's inconsistent.

Personally, I like the idea of hybrids, not just in D&D 4e, but also in Pathfinder, and to some extent AD&D (1e & 2e).

D&D 4e: Each class was given a hybrid-version, which amounted to half the original class options. Mix and match any two classes to create something unique with alternating powers. Some options worked better others, obviously. But it was a fun idea that was still balanced because they shared the same progression as every other class. That was part of the beauty (or dismay, depending on your perspective) of that system. Of course, it might not work so easily with other edition because 4e was designed so radically different.

AD&D (1e & 2e): This was just an option for non-human races who could select more than one class and operate simultaneously (i.e. Fighter/Mage, Mage/Thief, Fighter/Mage/Thief, etc). The down sides were a) some abilities would be cancelled by certain restrictions (i.e. arcane spell-casters had a chance of spell failure for wearing armor, backstabbing only worked with certain weapons, etc.), b) level progression was much slower because your XP would be divided for each class even after c) you could only reach a certain level of each class based on your race and relevant attribute score. Thus, a dwarf Fighter/Cleric might only be allowed to reach level 8 in Cleric (don't quote me, I'm not looking that up) but continue to level 12 in Fighter. His XP would still be divided for both classes even though he cannot gain more Cleric levels.

Pathfinder: The Advanced Class Guide introduced new character classes based on specific class combinations, such as the Arcanist (wizard/sorceror), the Hunter (druid/ranger), and the Inquisitor (rogue/alchemist). But they didn't just mash two classes together and spread out the same abilities or features. They came up with new abilities and features to give each class a unique feel and role to the game.

In a sense, 5e does something similar with specific sub-class options for most classes, such as the Arcane Trickster for Rogues (Mage), and the Eldritch Knight for Fighters (Mage, again). Maybe some more options like this would solve the dilemma, whatever it is.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
What exactly are you trying to address about it? That players shouldn't do it? That it doesn't work too well? Or that it works too good? Or that there aren't enough hoops to jump through? I think you need to be more specific about what it is you are trying to fix before you start fixing anything. That goes for any edition, any system, any problem.

He asked a question about whether class features should be able to internally call out multiclassing and behave differently when it is done.

The basic premise is that some features can be fine for a single classed character but be too strong for a multiclassed character. I don't think there's any way to argue with this premise. So is the way to address this issue with text that such a feature behaves differently when multiclassed? I think that's a fine solution. What do you think?


First, terrible name. How about Armor Expertise?

So why would a Fighter with a higher Dex bonus take this? They wouldn't. At least not until their Proficiency Bonus exceeded their Dex bonus, or at least the limitation of the armor they wear.

Which leads to another question: When/how do they take this? Is it automatic for all Fighters? If so, at which level? Or is it a Feat? You need to explain this more clearly, or give it some more thought.

He's talking about class features. If you took 5 seconds to actually consider what he was saying then you would understand that the feature he was proposing was one that all fighters automatically got as a class feature. He's saying if something like this was a fighter class feature would it be bad because it address multiclassing within the feature.

So why would a Paladin NOT take this? Because most Paladins are going to have a higher Charisma bonus since many of their other abilities rely on this attribute already. And if they multi-class, then they suddenly lose this ability, not just make it worse like the one for Fighters above? That's inconsistent.

The question isn't if that particular feature is okay but if features that behave differently for mutliclassed characters are acceptable. That is just one example of many that he could have cited.
 
Last edited:



Yunru

Banned
Banned
So you think that all potential features that are fine for a single classed character must necessarily be fine for a multiclassed character?
Must? No, there is no "must". The feature will be fine. That's the point of having to invest levels.

Also your argument fails because there are already features that aren't as strong MC'd and they're both better than the examples given and don't mention multiclassing at all (e.g. Second Wind).
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Also your argument fails because there are already features that aren't as strong MC'd and they're both better than the examples given and don't mention multiclassing at all (e.g. Second Wind).

There could be 20,000 features that are fine for multiclassed characters and it still wouldn't impact the truth of my position that some features will work fine for single classes but be not be fine for multiclasses.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
There could be 20,000 features that are fine for multiclassed characters and it still wouldn't impact the truth of my position that some features will work fine for single classes but be not be fine for multiclasses.

Name one. To meet your argument it has to have the following criteria:

  • Be above the power curve for its level investment when multiclassed.
  • Be at or below the power curve for its level investment when not multiclassed.
  • Not have an alternate way to scale in power except by mentioning multiclassing (if applicable).
 
Last edited:

Satyrn

First Post
Would you be okay with class abilities that explicitly addressed multi-classing? Something along the lines of

Cinematic Defence: a single-classed Fighter may use her Proficiency Bonus instead of her Dex bonus when calculating AC; a multi-class Fighter may only use a +2 bonus instead of her Dex bonus.

Divine Agility: a single-classed Paladin may use her Charisma bonus instead of her Dex bonus when calculating AC; a multi-classed Paladin may not.

Theoretically, sure. When there's no easy way to get the result you're after.

But for these specific examples, no. The cleric's Divine Strike gives you the wording you need to create the same result and is super easy to use. Well, not exactly the same, but better for those characters who aren't just dipping into the class.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top