D&D General Would you buy an AI-generated Castle Greyhawk "by" Gary Gygax?" Should you?

[delericho]

no, get an actual writer to go through the notes and fill in the gaps / add to it, and an artist to create maps, etc.

This.

I don't have the same principled objections to AI as @mamba (I tend to view it as pretty much unstoppable at this point, so tend more to "how do we best use it?"). My reason for not wanting the product the OP suggests is more that I'm just not a fan of High Gygaxian language anyway, especially in adventure products (where I prize ease-of-use more), and am even less of a fan of the notion of a simulacrum generating the same.

 

[mamba]

I don't have the same principled objections to AI as @mamba (I tend to view it as pretty much unstoppable at this point, so tend more to "how do we best use it?").

I am not against AI on principle (I think), I do not like a lot of its impact. It makes many of us stupider and less capable for using it, and that is not good.

In the hands of someone competent, AI is a tool that benefits both the person and the created work. In the hands of others, it floods the world with (moronic) drivel and prevents them from reaching their potential.

Unfortunately a lot of jobs seem to be replaceable by drivel generators. Author should not be one of them, at least not for authors I care to read.

 

[the Jester]

The only thing worse than AI is how quickly we've become so willing to embrace it.

Why?

 

[the Jester]

They aren't good. At least not for me. Because they are not innovative, they lack smart ideas. They are normalized, generic. Because human creativity doesn't work on mathematical functions and can't be mapped to any mathematical functions.

We don't know how human creativity works. What you say here is like saying, "I don't know how it works, but it surely can't be chemistry!"

 

[Cergorach]

Unfortunately a lot of jobs seem to be replaceable by drivel generators. Author should not be one of them, at least not for authors I care to read.

Author is not some sort of label of quality, it is a writer of a book, article, or document. Regardless of quality.

But let me ask you something uncomfortable: IF an author can be replaced by a LLM, what does that say about that author? And with IF I don't mean some higher up deciding that author X needs to be replaced by LLM Y. I mean that readers don't know the difference or even prefer the LLM version...

An expert veteran welder can be replaced on an assembly line by a robot, that does better and faster work. That doesn't mean that the expert veteran welder is any less of an expert veteran welder, he's just not properly utilized on an assembly line. This can also be the case with a writer.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Below are the rooms that ChatGPT created using Gygax's key. I think the prompt could be tuned far better, but the output seems ok to me. I've seen worse by humans! It is a bit bare-bones. It would be useful to feed the tool a model example of how Gary wrote a room.

Also, you could always improve the result by asking for more details and other possibilities, especially if having a large enough context window, which is not limited by the principle of AI but by the computers at our disposal. Plus, despite all its qualities, as you mentionned, ChatGPT is a general model, a small model specifically trained for the task will get better results (chatgtp vision won't diagnose a tumor based on the image you show him, but AI technology in general can).

Room 1: The Scowling Den
Room 2: The Goblin Warren
Room 3: Lair of the Giant Vermin
Room 4: The Brigand's Holdfast
Room 5: The Centipede's Nest

Could you nail the coffin by asking ChatGPT for ideas on why these motley band of adversaries could share the same habitat and work together, and what their goal could be? And tell the AI that providing alternatives will be OK, as well. This would be another great test/demonstration.

Because an hypothetical castle designed by AI based on Gygax scattered notes wouldn't be prompted as "read these notes and produce the final text, send it to the printers and notify Barnes & Nobles." It would certainly be used alongside with a human editor that would review the text, therefore gaining tremendous time in his endeavour of writing the module, reprompting what doesn't fit and asking the AI to correct the odd spaceship airlock in a medieval castle. Much like AI art right now isn't just "create my NPC", it's an involved process to get the vision in the mind correctfully rendered in the image, which involve a workflow.

Sure, there might be a point where we achieve "Muse, write this module for my game later this evening", but it will be following a period of time where AI-assisted writing will have become so commonplace that it will be accepted more readily, much like ready-to-wear replaced bespoke not over-the-night but gradually within our developped world.

 

[Clint_L]

Also, you could always improve the result by asking for more details and other possibilities, especially if having a large enough context window, which is not limited by the principle of AI but by the computers at our disposal. Plus, despite all its qualities, as you mentionned, ChatGPT is a general model, a small model specifically trained for the task will get better results (chatgtp vision won't diagnose a tumor based on the image you show him, but AI technology in general can).



Could you nail the coffin by asking ChatGPT for ideas on why these motley band of adversaries could share the same habitat and work together, and what their goal could be? And tell the AI that providing alternatives will be OK, as well. This would be another great test/demonstration.

Because an hypothetical castle designed by AI based on Gygax scattered notes wouldn't be prompted as "read these notes and produce the final text, send it to the printers and notify Barnes & Nobles." It would certainly be used alongside with a human editor that would review the text, therefore gaining tremendous time in his endeavour of writing the module, reprompting what doesn't fit and asking the AI to correct the odd spaceship airlock in a medieval castle. Much like AI art right now isn't just "create my NPC", it's an involved process to get the vision in the mind correctfully rendered in the image, which involve a workflow.

Sure, there might be a point where we achieve "Muse, write this module for my game later this evening", but it will be following a period of time where AI-assisted writing will have become so commonplace that it will be accepted more readily, much like ready-to-wear replaced bespoke not over-the-night but gradually within our developped world.

Gygax’s original didn’t have a lot of rhyme or reason to it, though. That’s part of the charm.

 

[mamba]

Author is not some sort of label of quality, it is a writer of a book, article, or document. Regardless of quality.

to me it comes with a certain level of quality, sure anyone can write something, but I was thinking of published author, and not everyone manages that (and I also agree that not every published writer is that much better than AI)

But let me ask you something uncomfortable: IF an author can be replaced by a LLM, what does that say about that author? And with IF I don't mean some higher up deciding that author X needs to be replaced by LLM Y. I mean that readers don't know the difference or even prefer the LLM version...

it tells me that the author was not all that interesting to begin with. Entertaining, maybe, that is in the eye of the beholder anyway.

I am not expecting authors to be replaced so much, as secretaries or lawyers. AI can adequately summarize something or write a form letter, we do not need a million people charging $500 for that.

AI will have a much harder time with news articles or research papers, at least if you care about accuracy. For novels I will freely admit that there are a lot that are not objectively good literature and probably only a small step up from an AI today, but I’d still rather read an actual author and maybe get surprised (positive or negative) than an AI reliably spitting out mediocrity. I’d rather have an interesting new take / spin on something than the reheated same-old every time

An expert veteran welder can be replaced on an assembly line by a robot, that does better and faster work. That doesn't mean that the expert veteran welder is any less of an expert veteran welder, he's just not properly utilized on an assembly line. This can also be the case with a writer.

the problem is when you have more expert welders no longer needed at assembly lines than needed anywhere else. Once a sufficient number of jobs can be done by AI and there is no adequate alternative available, we as a society will run into a problem, unless we solve having to work for a living first, and I am not holding my breath on that one

 

[M.T. Black]

I'll admit that I find this technology fascinating. For the sake of the exercise, I've been playing around with the first five rooms of Gygax's original Castle Greyhawk (level 1). Using Tsojcanth as a template, and with a bit of massaging, the AI produced the following:

Castle Greyhawk: Level 1

1. The Kobold's Cramped Quarters

You find yourselves at the threshold of a confined chamber, its dimensions some 20 feet by 30 feet. The stench of kobold is overpowering, mingling with the dimness of the scarce light. The walls, crudely etched with primal symbols, and the floors, strewn with bones and the remnants of unknown spoils, tell of the inhabitants' savage nature. You gaze upon a band of kobolds, their beady eyes gleaming with a mix of cunning and malice, as they scurry about their trove.

Within this chamber dwell 1d8+8 Kobolds (AC 7; MV 6"; HD 1/2; hp 4 each; #AT 1; D 1-4; SA ambush tactics). Amidst their disordered hoard lies a prize most unusual for such creatures: a mirror of dusty silver, its craftsmanship speaking of a time long forgotten, valued at 750 gold pieces. These kobolds, seemingly lowly yet fiercely organized, stand ready to defend this treasure with surprising ferocity.

2. Goblin's Filthy Hideout

As you step into the larger cavern, spanning some 25 feet by 40 feet, your senses are besieged by the rank stench of goblin filth. The chaos is palpable – heaps of pilfered goods, remnants of untold feasts, and makeshift tools scattered haphazardly. The discordant sounds of goblin chatter fill the air, as a few of the creatures engage in a crude game of chance with pilfered bones, whilst others squabble over a small trove.

This den is home to 1d6+6 Goblins (AC 6; MV 9"; HD 1-1; hp 5 each; #AT 1; D 1-6; SA ambush in groups). Their raucous bickering is momentarily silenced as they notice your intrusion, their malevolent eyes glinting with both cunning and opportunity. A small leather pouch, containing a mere 10 gold pieces, lies almost forgotten amid their brawling.

3. Giant Rat's Corridor

You venture into this narrow passageway, scarce more than 15 feet in length, teeming with the incessant skittering and squeaking of giant rats. The walls and floor bear the marks of gnawing and clawing, revealing the vermin's dominion. The air is heavy with a musty, earthy scent, mixed with the subtle hint of peril. Amidst the debris, a glint of glass catches your eye, half-hidden under a refuse pile.

This corridor is a haven for 3d4 Giant Rats (AC 7; MV 12"; HD 1/4; hp 2 each; #AT 1; D 1-3; SA disease chance). Their beady, watchful eyes betray a readiness to defend their realm. Hidden amongst the detritus, a potion of strength lies waiting, as if discarded by a prior, hapless soul.

4. Bandit's Strategic Stronghold

This is a chamber of strategic import, measuring some 30 feet by 50 feet, adorned with the tools of skullduggery: maps, weapons, and armor. A coterie of bandits, garbed in the wear of the rogue, engage in heated discourse around a large, roughly hewn table. Their leader, a figure marred by scars of battle, commands the room with a thunderous voice and an iron fist.

Residing within are 1d8+8 Bandits (AC 6; MV 9"; HD 1; hp 6 each; #AT 1; D 1-8; SA coordinated attacks) and a Bandit Leader of formidable presence (AC 5; MV 9"; HD 3; hp 18; #AT 1; D 1-8; SA command bandits). Their cache of ill-gotten gains includes a +1 shield, a potion of undetected control, and a chest brimming with 1000 gold pieces. The bandits, alerted to your presence, arm themselves swiftly, ready to defend their stronghold with cunning and brute force.

5. The Centipede's Damp Lair

You enter a chamber of damp and earthen scent, its diameter stretching 20 feet. The constant drip of moisture from the stone ceiling creates a slick sheen on the floor, where Giant Centipedes writhe and coil in a mesmerizing dance. The rustling sound of their many-legged movement reverberates off the chamber walls, creating an unsettling symphony. In certain nooks, the centipedes gather in such numbers that the floor itself seems to move.

Inhabiting this lair are 1d4+4 Giant Centipedes (AC 9; MV 12"; HD 1/2; hp 3 each; #AT 1; D 1-3; SA poison bite). These creatures, of hues ranging from dark brown to sickly yellow, glide with an eerie grace. No visible treasure lies here, but the latent danger of their venomous bite is a clear and present threat.

 

[Raiztt]

No. I just kicked a player out of a game for wanting to use AI art - I won't have any association with it.