Would you participate in this?

[Mouseferatu]

Comment deleted. Nevermind; as you were, guys. Anyone else care to weigh in?

 

[Crothian]

I wouldn't enter; I haven't read your books and it would seem like a cheesy way to rope in more readers so on general principles, it wouldn't get me to read the books either.

What's cheesy about it? It helps people become aware of the books, Ari has been a long time member of the community has established himself as not someone who does constant self promotion, and it involves some of the activities of these forums namely creating characters and then arguing about them.

But if I was a reader, I might find it interesting. Might be better in a different, fan based forum though, than a general forum. It seems overly self-promoting here...

So, not because its cheesy but the real reason you won't enter is because you haven't read the books.

 

[Haltherrion]

What's cheesy about it? It helps people become aware of the books, Ari has been a long time member of the community has established himself as not someone who does constant self promotion, and it involves some of the activities of these forums namely creating characters and then arguing about them.



So, not because its cheesy but the real reason you won't enter is because you haven't read the books.

I'm not trying to be mean. I can appreciate how hard it is to establish oneself as a writer. I've dabbled in artwork before and know what it is like to try to get noticed or not (BTW on that score, the cover to "Thief" looks an aweful lot like a piece I posted to renderosity some years ago But it's okay, the cover is much better and honestly, I didn't see that until after I had posted).

But Ari asked for feedback and I decided to be honest. I am guessing by the overall low response to this thread that my opinion is not unusual, just probably unstated.

So, yes, it feels cheesy to me.

But to your point, were I already a fan, I would be inclined to participate. Not being a fan yet, it feels like a stealth advertisement. Guess I was already drawn in some because I did check out his website based on the post

Let me put this another way. I hope Ari is wildly successful. But I saw this post with little followup at the very end of the last page for today's "new posts" so at the risk of bruising an ego, I thought I'd post what I really felt rather than remain silent as most people have.

From my own experience, while I might be bent out of shape the moment I see unpleasant feedback, in the long run it is the most valuable of the feedback I ever get. I just may not appreciate it the day I get it

 

[Mouseferatu]

Do you also not buy other products because the makers advertise them, or have contests where you can win them?

That's not me being snarky. I'm genuinely curious. Because it's the exact same thing. Any promotion is designed, ultimately, to spread word about the product in question, whether it's a novel, a sports team, or a soda. It's not underhanded and there's no secret to it. Of course that's the point of a book giveaway--to get people, both current fans and possibly those who haven't read my material, interested in my books. The only difference is that, now, authors do this more than they used to because publishers do it less than they used to. (Yes, even the big publishers have cut back on publicity. Nobody knows that better than those of us who have had books published in the last few years.)

I'm not trying to trick anyone into anything. If people aren't interested in winning a signed copy of one of my novels, then they won't enter. If they are, they will. It's possible that this particular contest won't garner a lot of interest, but if that's the case, it just means I need to find a different approach. It's certainly not because a bunch of people are offended at the idea of a give-away; I know that from past contents.

 

[Toll Carom]

I'm not trying to be mean.

Nope, just self-important. Got it.

Ari, you keep doing whatever it is you need to do to sell books in this crazy climate, because selling your books is how you feed your family and, well, some of us understand that.

 

[Haltherrion]

Do you also not buy other products because the makers advertise them, or have contests where you can win them?

Guess I just don't expect that type of promotion in an enworld post. I feel bombarded enough by advertisements.

You asked if folks would participate. I gave both an answer and a reason. I'm sorry if you didn't like either but I don't regret it. I regret thundering silence more. Maybe I speak for a tiny minority of readers; maybe I don't. At least you have a little feedback. As with any feedback, you need to determine what to make of it. A single piece of negative feedback can be hard to digest but it's all I can offer. You have to decide if I'm an outlier or representative.

When I dabbled in artwork while it stung to get an answer I didn't like, I always prefered a response, positive or negative to no answer at all. Naturally, being human, it would take me a little while to appreciate the negative feedback but if it was meant in good faith it was invaluable, more so than a "cool" to be honest. It gave me something to work on.

Seeing little traffic on your thread, I thought I'd chime in. On the plus side, I'm sure I've generated some sympathy for you and a little activity can't hurt getting your message out there.

And I did actually look at your website to see if your books might appeal (honest answer, I'm not sure. Also checked some Amazon reviews although not sure if I found all your fiction, as opposed to the RPG material.)

 

[Haltherrion]

Nope, just self-important. Got it.

So answering the poster's question in any way other than the desired answer is self-important? While it might sting a little, maybe it is also useful in the long run to hear from those who wouldn't participate so that he can alter the proposal and improve participation, no? I presume Ari's goal is in fact to sell more books.

 

[IronWolf]

But Ari asked for feedback and I decided to be honest. I am guessing by the overall low response to this thread that my opinion is not unusual, just probably unstated.

Feedback on thoughts of the contest, the slam on calling the thread overly self-promoting is what I think people are thinking is a bit out of left field.

Ari's a longtime poster at EN World and this is a discussion board. A great place for him to come and gather some feedback from peers and potential customers as to what we think of his next contest idea. What better place to run an idea by folks than here.

And trying to justify the comment by saying you are the silent majority is a bit of a stretch. They may quite likely be more like Kzach who are self-admittedly lazy and not apt to go to that length to enter a contest.

Guess I just don't expect that type of promotion in an enworld post. I feel bombarded enough by advertisements.

People promote things at this site all the time. 3rd party publishers with signatures promoting their product, people promoting their various websites and such - there was just a contest run within the past month or so promoting someone's t-shirt shop. Ari's request is hardly out of the ordinary for this site.

You asked if folks would participate. I gave both an answer and a reason. I'm sorry if you didn't like either but I don't regret it. I regret thundering silence more. Maybe I speak for a tiny minority of readers; maybe I don't. At least you have a little feedback. As with any feedback, you need to determine what to make of it. A single piece of negative feedback can be hard to digest but it's all I can offer. You have to decide if I'm an outlier or representative.

I think your feedback was more effective at, "no - I would not participate and I have not read your books. This contest idea does not pique my interest enough to drive me out to purchase your books to read to enter the contest or even to read the freely available story."

The slam on the nature of the thread itself is what seems a little out of left field. I think Ari fully expects some people won't participate and a portion of your posts have addressed this.

 

[Haltherrion]

It's the fact that I need to purchase the book before participating in the contest that strikes me as overly-self promotional. There are other ways it could be structured as some have suggested on the thread, that do not require this.

If others are fine with the contest as structured, go for it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And I did actually look at your website to see if your books might appeal (honest answer, I'm not sure. Also checked some Amazon reviews although not sure if I found all your fiction, as opposed to the RPG material.)

And whatever else comes of this, I do appreciate that.

(I do have some free fiction available on the site, if you're not sure if the novels would appeal to you. And if they don't, well, so be it. Thanks for at least looking.)

It's the fact that I need to purchase the book before participating in the contest that strikes me as overly-self promotional.

I think this is the crux of my confusion with your response. You don't have to purchase a book to participate. As I mentioned in the first post, I have a free short story available that uses some of the same characters. So even before I asked about a new variant of the contest a few posts in, there was never a requirement for purchase.

Hence, my bewilderment. I have no problem with the fact that the contest isn't for you; I didn't expect it to be for everyone. It's the nature of your objection that I've been having trouble grokking. (Again, not snark. Honestly trying to understand.)