Wound System

[77IM]

Here is an additional subsystem to address some issues with wounds. In particular, the case that wounds may become trivial to heal, which means that PCs can accept wounds more often (and multiple at a time), which means extra healing surges during combat, making the game easier.


Scars
Whenever you suffer a wound, you also get a scar. The scar isn't necessarily externally visible -- it may be internal damage, a wonky knee, or just extra fragility. Scars make it harder to heal wounds:

Improve DC = 20 + 1/2 the wound's level + your number of scars

When you gain a level, you lose a scar. You can't have fewer than 0 scars, and there is no other way to lose a scar than by gaining levels.


...
This means that the dwarf fighter with the ungodly Con and Skill Focus: Endurance can no longer gleefully accept wounds, secure in the knowledge that he only needs to roll like a 5 in order to overcome it. That will work for him the first few times but every wound takes its toll and eventually he will have much more trouble recovering.

I'm not totally sure I like this rule. It seems like it would work -- the lingering effect of scars create a sort of feedback-loop so that the high-Con dwarf reaches "wound equilibrium" with the other party members -- but the additional tracking of scars seems like a bit too much bookkeeping.

I'm considering dropping the Inflict Wound action. The goal is to make wounds uncommon, but meaningful; maybe allowing PCs to always choose a wound (and the DM chooses when monsters take wounds) would model that better. Likewise, the stabilize-upon-dying seems abusable. Every PC would always choose this over rolling their third death save. Maybe wounds should just take globally longer to heal, or inflict worse penalties (like, you become dazed until you can take a short rest, or something).

-- 77IM

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

See post #13 directly below for a better write-up of where I was going...
*Yoink*

==original==
I like this idea, but I think the OP is too complex to implement smoothly at my table.

I would be more inclined to trim it down to:

<snip>

This way wounds are a valid, cinematic option for the players that has relatively long term effects without bogging down with record keeping.

Of course, I could be wrong

 

[77IM]

Alternate (simpler?) rules

Here's an alternate set of rules. These attempt to make suffering a wound into a "desperation move." If you're going to die or you're in a super tough fight, it may be better to take the hit points now and suffer the long-term effects of the wound.

-- 77IM


Wounds

SUFFER WOUND: Not an action

• At Any Time: You don't need to be conscious to suffer a wound. You can suffer a wound in response to an enemy's attack, or when you are about to die, or during your turn. You can't suffer a wound once you are dead, or if you are at full hit points, or if you are out of healing surges.
• Spend a Healing Surge: You spend a healing surge and regain hit points equal to your surge value, as normal. However, you can choose to heal fewer hit points; the amount of hit points you heal factors into the wound recovery DC (below). You can't suffer a wound if you are out of healing surges.
• Dazed: You become dazed (save ends).
• Gain a Wound: You gain a wound, but don't suffer any of its effects until after you have taken a short rest. (Adrenaline keeps you going after you recover from being dazed.) Record the wound, and number of hit points that you healed as a result of gaining the wound.

Wound Effects
You suffer a -1 penalty per wound to all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, saving throws, speed, and your maximum number of healing surges. This is cumulative; if you have 3 wounds, you suffer a -3 penalty.

Wound Recovery
After an extended rest, you may make an Endurance check to recover from one of your wounds. You don't need to attempt a recovery check if you don't want to. Another character can use the Heal skill to tend your wound; use their Heal check result or your Endurance result, whichever is higher.

The DC of the wound check is based on the number of hit points you healed when acquiring the wound.

Wound Recovery DC = 10 + half the number of hit points you healed when you suffered the wound

• Success: If you succeed on three wound recovery checks for the same wound, that wound is cured; you lose the wound and no longer suffer its penalties. These success don't need to be consecutive, but each one comes from a separate recovery check (so you need at least three extended rests to cure a wound, assuming you succeed on each recovery check).
• Failure: If you fail on three wound recovery checks, that wound is permanent, and you can no longer make recovery checks to attempt to cure it (although it can still be cured by the Cure Wound ritual). However, you no longer suffer any penalties from this wound, except for the penalty to your maximum number of healing surges.
• Multiple Wounds: You can only make one recovery check for one wound per extended rest. Track the successes and failures for each wound separately.

Example:
Hrothbert the 6th-level dwarf is bleeding out, felled by an elite orc shaman and his followers. The fight is going badly for his party, but they're out of healing words. Hrothbert decides to wrench himself off the ground and get back into the game! He heals his surge value (15 hit points) and stands up, dazed. His presence makes enough of a difference in the fight for the party to be victorious!

After a short rest, Hrothbert suffers the effects of his wounds: -1 to pretty much everything. The group trudges back to town so Hrothbert can start taking extended rests at the inn. After each one, he makes an Endurance check, DC 17 (1/2 of 15 = 7, +10 = 17). Over four days of resting, he fails the first check, succeeds on the next two, and then fails the fourth. On the fifth day, Hrothbert must decide whether to even attempt the recovery check. If he succeeds, he's cured of that wound forever. If he fails, he's stuck with reduced healing surges until he can get magical aid. Maybe he should forgo his recovery check tonight, and seek out someone with a decent Heal modifier to help on his final check?


...
This version of the rules does away with the disease-track and instead tracks successes (kind of like a personal mini skill challenge). I like this because it means that the fastest any character can cure themselves is 3 rests, and I think it better represents the flow of a wound: wounds never get worse over time, they either go away or become a permanent nuisance.

Also, I did some math and it turns out that 1/2 your surge value (which is 1/8 your hit points) advances at a rate that is reasonably similar to your Endurance modifier. Plus, high-HP characters are likely to have a good Endurance, and vice-versa, providing some natural balancing between the tough fighter and frail wizard (so that recovery checks are never too easy or too hard for any character).

 

[77IM]

Primitive Screwhead: I really like that idea about permanent wounds reducing your healing surges instead of just getting stuck with the penalty. It seems easy to use in play and is a better decision for the players: Most characters would be crippled if they were stuck with those penalties, but -1 surge isn't an issue for most people, because the PCs rarely run out of surges (they may run low, but then they sleep). It means keeping around an "old war wound" is a viable option, especially for defenders. But keeping around 3 or 4 old war wounds may be a bad idea...

I'm going to incorporate that into my post above (I was working on it at the same time you were posting).

-- 77IM

 

[mlangsdorf]

I think this version is pretty playable. But you should probably add some language about what is required to remove a permanent wound/scar - you allude to magical healing (a ritual?) but I'd also suggest maybe going up in level should remove scars. Being me, I'd say it should be something that happens on odd levels: you can remove one wound.

 

[77IM]

Hello fellow rulecrafters (rulewrights?), let's try this version on for size. It is meant to capture some of the richness of the original version (multiple types of wounds) with the more balanced recovery system of the second version, but using 4E conditions instead of mathematical penalties.

-- 77IM


Wounds
Hit points are abstract and represent bruises, flesh wounds, fatigue, morale, luck, and overall progress towards genuine injury. Usually, this injury means you are unconscious and dying. Under this system, players have the option to convert their hit point damage into a lesser type of injury -- a wound that is a persistent hindrance, but not fatal.

GAIN A WOUND: Not an action

• At Any Time: You don't need to be conscious to suffer a wound. You can suffer a wound in response to an enemy's attack, or when you are about to die, or during your turn. You can't suffer a wound once you are dead (after your last failed death save), or if you are at full hit points. You may gain two or three wounds at once, if you wish.
• Maximum 3 Wounds: If you already have 3 wounds (not counting permanent wounds), you can't gain a wound.
• Heal Up To Your Healing Surge Value: You heal any number of hit points, up to your healing surge value. This doesn't cost a healing surge (you can suffer a wound even if you are out of healing surges). Record the amount of damage you healed, because this determines the recovery DC for your wound (the more damage you healed, the higher your recovery DC).
• DM Decides the Type of Wound: The DM decides the type of wound based on what sort of damage you are taking (see the list, below).
• Suffer Wound Condition Immediately: Whatever condition your wound imposes, you suffer it right away.

Wound Effects
Maximum Healing Surges: Your maximum number of healing surges is reduced by 1 for each wound you have (including permanent wounds).
Wound Conditions: Each wound imposes a condition. You suffer the condition immediately when you gain the wound (above), and again each time you stress the wound (below).

Leg Wound: You are immobilized until the end of your next turn, and then slowed (save ends).
Arm Wound: You are unable to attack until the end of your next turn, and then weakened (save ends).
Head Wound: You are dazed (save ends).
Gut Wound: You take ongoing damage equal to 1/10 your maximum hit points (save ends).
​

Stressing a Wound: When you roll low on an attack roll, skill check, or ability check, you suffer the wound condition again. If the natural roll on the d20 die, before any modifiers, is less than or equal to your number of wounds, you immediately suffer the condition again (if you have multiple different wounds, randomly determine which). Permanent wounds can't be stressed and don't count towards your total number of wounds.

If you stress a wound outside of combat, you can usually just ignore it (unless you are in a tense situation where round-by-round tracking is important, such as a timed deathtrap). If your gut wound is stressed, you just lose a healing surge; if you're out of surges, lose hit points equal to your surge value.


Wound Recovery
After an extended rest, you may make a single Endurance check to recover from one of your wounds. You don't need to attempt a recovery check if you don't want to, but you can only make one per extended rest. Another character can use the Heal skill to tend your wound; use their Heal check result or your Endurance result, whichever is higher.

The DC of the wound check is based on the number of hit points you healed when acquiring the wound.

Wound Recovery DC = 10 + half the number of hit points you healed when you suffered the wound​

• Success: If you succeed on three wound recovery checks for the same wound, that wound is cured; you lose the wound and no longer suffer its penalties. These success don't need to be consecutive.
• Failure: If you fail on three wound recovery checks, that wound is permanent, and you can no longer make recovery checks to attempt to cure it (although it can still be cured by the Cure Wound ritual). However, you no longer suffer any penalties from this wound, except for the penalty to your maximum number of healing surges. The wound can no longer be stressed and doesn't count towards your number of wounds when determining whether wound stress occurs or whether you can earn a new wound.
• Multiple Wounds: You can only make one recovery check for one wound per extended rest. Track the successes and failures for each wound separately.

Example:

Hrothbert the 6th-level dwarf is bleeding out, felled by an elite orc shaman and his followers. The fight is going badly for his party, but they're out of healing words. Hrothbert decides to wrench himself off the ground and get back into the game! He heals his surge value (15 hit points). The DM decides that since Hrothbert's last damage was from a 30-foot fall, he suffers a leg wound. Hrothbert stands up, slowed; being a tank, this doesn't bother him much (although it's upsetting to become slowed again every time he rolls a 1). His presence makes enough of a difference in the fight for the party to be victorious!

After a short rest, the group trudges back to town so Hrothbert can start taking extended rests at the inn. After each one, he makes an Endurance check, DC 17 (1/2 of 15 = 7, +10 = 17). Over four days of resting, he fails the first check, succeeds on the next two, and then fails the fourth. On the fifth day, Hrothbert must decide whether to even attempt the recovery check. If he succeeds, he's cured of that wound forever. If he fails, he's stuck with reduced healing surges until he can get magical aid. Maybe he should forgo his recovery check tonight, and seek out someone with a decent Heal modifier to help on his final check?
​

...
I decided to go the "critical fail" route instead of numerical penalties because in my experience players often "forget" about their penalties, especially very broad penalties (a -1 to everything will be applied maybe half the time...). I don't think people will forget about rolling a 1 (or a 2 or a 3), since players often note the event when they totally botch a roll. The unpredictable nature also leads to a bit more dynamic combats, compared to the bland constant penalty. Finally, I think it matches genre conventions well: the wounded hero carries on, and the wound is only a sporadic problem, so that it can be worked into the story.

My biggest concern about this system is that some of the wounds seem worse than others (slowed and weakened probably aren't as bad as dazed, and ongoing damage could be bad, based on the situation).

-- 77IM

 

[CapnZapp]

SUFFER WOUND: Free Action

• Costs a Healing Surge: Suffering a wound uses up a healing surge, but you don't get the normal benefits of using a healing surge. You must have at least one healing surge available to suffer a wound.

This I don't like.

When you have surges left, chances are good you can use it (in any of the normal ways, such as having the Cleric drop a Healing Word on'ya) instead of taking a wound.

It's for when you're out of surges the wounds rules should be geared, imo. It's when the Healing Words and Healing Potions won't work this mechanism comes into play, as I see it.

As an alternative to dying, wounds are great.
As an alternative to using a healing surge, wounds are irrelevant.

 

[77IM]

That's why I changed that in the most recent version (you have quoted the earlier post).

-- 77IM

 

[77IM]

Ritual

Cure Wound
Even the most gruesome injury disappears in response to your healing touch.

Level: 6
Category: Restoration
Time: 10 minutes
Duration: Instantaneous

Component Cost: 150 gp
Market Price: 360 gp
Key Skill: Heal

The Cure Wound ritual wipes away a single wound afflicting the subject, whether the wound is permanent or still healing naturally. The subject is completely cured of the wound, no longer suffering reduction to maximum healing surges or any chance of stressing the wound. This ritual is physically taxing to the recipient; if used on an injured character, it can even kill him or her. Upon completing this ritual, make a Heal check, using the 1/2 the hit points healed by the wound as a penalty to this check. The result indicates the amount of damage the character takes. Assuming the character survives, this damage can be healed normally.

Heal Check
Result ... Effect on Target
0 or lower ... Death
1–9 ... Damage equal to the target’s maximum hit points
10–19 ... Damage equal to one-half of the target’s maximum hit points
20–29 ... Damage equal to one-quarter of the target’s maximum hit points
30 or higher ... No damage

If you know that your subject is suffering from multiple wounds, you must choose which one this ritual will cure. Otherwise, the ritual affects whichever single wound you knew about. You learn the amount of hit points the wound cured when you begin the ritual, and at that point you can choose not to continue, without expending any components.

 

[BartD]

I really like the direction but have no idea how it will play out.

However, using "critical misses" means that the stress of casting a fireball depends on the number of targets?!

Stressing a Wound: When you roll low on an attack roll, skill check, or ability check, you suffer the wound condition again. If the natural roll on the d20 die, before any modifiers, is less than or equal to your number of wounds, you immediately suffer the condition again (if you have multiple different wounds, randomly determine which). Permanent wounds can't be stressed and don't count towards your total number of wounds.